Stack packs / covers for loose footed mains.

[samfieldhouse]

I’ve recently given my Cobra 850 a transformative upgrade to a Kemps loose footed mainsail.

My challenge is now stowing it; my original sail cover is very tight on the new sail (not good) and being loose footed my old technique of ‘bagging’ the main when I lower it into its own folds doesn’t work.

I’m single handed so flaking a new and stiff sail on deck is quite the challenge!

Personally I LOATH lazy jacks, I think they look naff. And I know the stack pack/lazy jack combo is both prolific and proven… but is there an alternative?
Are there any examples of a removable stack pack? And can they work without lazy jacks?

The foot of the main is tiny - 8ft 3” so there isn’t masses of sail.

 

[RJJ]

I was recommended, but never proceeded with, the following.

A stackpack type system where the "pack" is rather light and simplistic. Lighter weight fabric, it could even have mesh panels. no zip, no need even fully to cover the whole sail, stops short of the mast. The sail is secured with three or four bungee or webbing lashings over the top, where the zip would be.

The lazyjacks removed once the sail down and lashed down to the mast or deck.

Then a traditional boom cover that sits on the sail wrapped around the pack and is fastened under the boom.

The advantages are you don't mess around with a long zip atop the boom. It sheds water and protects the sail better than a typical stackpack. The cover should last longer because it doesn't get wear and tear under sail, fits better under gravity. The cover is cheaper to make and neither it nor the simple stackpack are sensitive to being precisely tailored.

Disadvantage is you have to stow the cover when sailing.

 

[geem]

Our stackpack can have the lazyjacks removed by unclipping at the bag. The bag has full length battens that the bag can be rolled around on each side and clipped back in itself. Lazy jack's stow at mast. The bag is a two piece arrangement that fixes to the boom by p strip on each side of the boom. You have the option for bag or no bag. We rarely if ever use the discrete option as the bag is so convenient when reefing. I don't find lazy jack's offensive or inconvenient

 

[Chiara’s slave]

The only mild inconvenience is making sure your batten ends don’t get caught up during hoisting.

 

[Obi]

Never had a strong opinion on them other than they make solo sailing a lot easier. The benefit they give vs the dislike you have for them might be enough for you to learn to like them. I dislike a lowered mainsail flapping all over the deck a lot more than I dislike a few extra lines between mast and boom. You can also create your own with a few small fittings and line for almost nothing in terms of ££.

As mentioned by Chiara's slave, batten ends get caught, so just head into wind when hoisting or dropping.

 

[chris-s]

On our little Pegasus we added lazy jacks which make dropping the main much ‘tidier’, particularly when single handing, but still use a more traditional (?) sailcover. It fits inside the lazy jacks fine and as for catching battens, it rarely happens and is usually only the top batten which is easily avoided by giving the sail a tug as you hoist it.

 

[Stemar]

I don't think there's a better alternative to the stackpack/lazyjack combination for short handed cruising. Bring the lines back to the cockpit and you can drop or reef the main without leaving the cockpit, which, in a small boat in bumpy weather is a big plus. Dropping the main is a simple matter of pulling up the topping lift and letting go of the halliard (a light downhaul may be useful). It drops into the pack and is safely stashed until you're ready to put it away properly. Personally, I wouldn't be without. Different if you are a fully crewed racing boat, but for Hubby and the Missus out for the weekend, I don't think it can be beaten, especially as the years catch up with us.

 

[Tranona]

I’ve recently given my Cobra 850 a transformative upgrade to a Kemps loose footed mainsail.

My challenge is now stowing it; my original sail cover is very tight on the new sail (not good) and being loose footed my old technique of ‘bagging’ the main when I lower it into its own folds doesn’t work.

I’m single handed so flaking a new and stiff sail on deck is quite the challenge!

Personally I LOATH lazy jacks, I think they look naff. And I know the stack pack/lazy jack combo is both prolific and proven… but is there an alternative?
Are there any examples of a removable stack pack? And can they work without lazy jacks?

The foot of the main is tiny - 8ft 3” so there isn’t masses of sail.

No, there is not a simple alternative. If you don't like the sight of lazyjacks when you are sailing, then just slacken them off and pull forward to the mast. Having a removable stack pack rather defeats the object of having one - the whole idea is to make life simple by being able to raise and drop the sail from the cockpit. Get Kemps to make you one.

 

[Praxinoscope]

I have for years avoided Lazyjacks, but have finally given in and ordered a Kemp Packaway system, having sailed a friends yacht recently which is fitted with Lazyjacks and stackpack I have decided that the advantages offered outweigh any reservations I had, and look forward to next season when I don’t have to struggle with flaking the sail whilst bouncing around on the coach roof.

 

[25931]

I have for years avoided Lazyjacks, but have finally given in and ordered a Kemp Packaway system, having sailed a friends yacht recently which is fitted with Lazyjacks and stackpack I have decided that the advantages offered outweigh any reservations I had, and look forward to next season when I don’t have to struggle with flaking the sail whilst bouncing around on the coach roof.

Better late than never

 

[RupertW]

I have for years avoided Lazyjacks, but have finally given in and ordered a Kemp Packaway system, having sailed a friends yacht recently which is fitted with Lazyjacks and stackpack I have decided that the advantages offered outweigh any reservations I had, and look forward to next season when I don’t have to struggle with flaking the sail whilst bouncing around on the coach roof.

You just wait for when you have tried hoisting the sail and it gets caught, so down it comes a few feet, you wait until the perfect moment when it breaks free, hoist like crazy and it gets stuck again. And endlessly repeat. It happens to me once or twice a season - usually when conditions can best be described as hungover. Otherwise it’s marvellous.

 

[thinwater]

Lazy jacks. Something has to catch the sail. You're hoping for ... magic?

As other say, pull them forward while hoisting if they catch (more of a problem solo in strong winds) and leave them there until you douse, if they offend you. Don't know why they would.

 

[Praxinoscope]

You just wait for when you have tried hoisting the sail and it gets caught, so down it comes a few feet, you wait until the perfect moment when it breaks free, hoist like crazy and it gets stuck again. And endlessly repeat. It happens to me once or twice a season - usually when conditions can best be described as hungover. Otherwise it’s marvellous.

That was one of my reservations about going down the L/Jack route.

 

[flaming]

No, there is not a simple alternative.

Oh contrair...

If you don't like lazyjacks and stackpacks, have a look at the dutchman system.

The Dutchman — UK Sailmakers

Dad had a boat come with this in the 90s... We eventually replaced it with a stackpack, but if you're very anti them it's a neat system.

 

[Obi]

Oh contrair...

If you don't like lazyjacks and stackpacks, have a look at the dutchman system.

The Dutchman — UK Sailmakers

Dad had a boat come with this in the 90s... We eventually replaced it with a stackpack, but if you're very anti them it's a neat system.

I like that! It will impress and bewilder other sailors who are unaware of this. Like clicking one's fingers and the perfect flaking magically happens. People will ask "how did they do that"?

 

[Obi]

You just wait for when you have tried hoisting the sail and it gets caught, so down it comes a few feet, you wait until the perfect moment when it breaks free, hoist like crazy and it gets stuck again.

It is true.

Practice, strength, speed and timing help, not sure I could say I have a 100% success rate, but in calm weathers it was always a cinch.

Small boats/big seas. Might not be ideal as Stemar mentions above.

 

[Tranona]

Oh contrair...

If you don't like lazyjacks and stackpacks, have a look at the dutchman system.

The Dutchman — UK Sailmakers

Dad had a boat come with this in the 90s... We eventually replaced it with a stackpack, but if you're very anti them it's a neat system.

For the OP who has just had a new mainsail made by Kemps for a 22 footer doubt that is a practical alternative - even if he could actually get one made in the UK. Product now history although still one or two offering it in the USA.

 

[RupertW]

It is true.

Practice, strength, speed and timing help, not sure I could say I have a 100% success rate, but in calm weathers it was always a cinch.

Small boats/big seas. Might not be ideal as Stemar mentions above.

Interesting - I find the opposite and that’s helped me over the last 3 seasons in a much windier area than my previous cruising ground. In calms I find that sail isn’t streaming neatly aft and can get bunched and stick (not often but still annoying when it happens). With a stronger wind the battens seem to be blown clear between the two jackstays. When it is calm I now try to have the engine revs up higher when initially hosting the main.

 

[flaming]

For the OP who has just had a new mainsail made by Kemps for a 22 footer doubt that is a practical alternative - even if he could actually get one made in the UK. Product now history although still one or two offering it in the USA.

Adding the small holes necessary in the sail is not going to be beyond any competent sailmaker.

Should stress, I found lazyjacks and stackpack to be a far better overall solution, but if you're really set against them then this is an alternative. Would be reasonably easy to DIY the line if you couldn't get a kit.

 

[Chiara’s slave]

Interesting - I find the opposite and that’s helped me over the last 3 seasons in a much windier area than my previous cruising ground. In calms I find that sail isn’t streaming neatly aft and can get bunched and stick (not often but still annoying when it happens). With a stronger wind the battens seem to be blown clear between the two jackstays. When it is calm I now try to have the engine revs up higher when initially hosting the main.

The only time it happens for us is in light airs and a really bumpy sea, like off Egypt point.