Stack-Pack or Lazy-jacks?

Porthandbuoy

Porthandbuoy

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www.backbearing.com
Title says it all really. Ladybird's getting a new mainsail made over the winter and I'm trying to decide whether to order:-

a) a Stack-Pack system where the sail cover is an integral part of the assembly permanently fitted to the boom, or

b) a Lazy-jack system fastened to the boom with a separate sail cover, or

c) nothing at all, as per the old, tired, mainsail.

Ladybird's a Nicholson 26 masthead sloop and I sail mostly on my own.
 
I also sail short handed and single handed quite often, a Stack-Pack system really make life easier.
Yes, it is expensive as initial cost but the system is already at its 20th years and still working well,
just DIY changing the zipper & lines every 5-7 years.
 
I've single-handed for the last 25 years - would never consider having no boom bag and would be reluctant to go back to just lazy jacks.
By the time you've worked out the extension of the life of the main anything but the full monte is a conspicuous economic self-injury.
My main is fully battened, Vektran - less UV resistant than plain Dacron and far more expensive to replace, is zipped up as soon as it comes down - it's been up for over 400 hours under way this, its first season, in the Eastern Med.
The last Dacron main lasted 13 years under similar conditions, before expiring in UV shreds. Considering your main will never be up as much as mine and will mainly be furled - the extra cost of a full stack-pack system over separate bag is negligible and the saving in work considerable.
Considering my Stakpack cost less than 6% of the full mainsail price, I'm surprised you need to ask the question.
 
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Lazy jacks make the sail handling so much easier. Having the whole thing makes it even easier, with the sail being fully stowed away and covered in seconds, or a couple of mins if you put the mast section on. You can still use your old cover with lazy jacks. Put some ties round the sail so it doesn't flop, loosen the lazy jacks and bring them to the mast and fit the cover. Not quite as convenient but only a couple of minutes extra work.
 
neilf39 said:
Lazy jacks make the sail handling so much easier. Having the whole thing makes it even easier, with the sail being fully stowed away and covered in seconds, or a couple of mins if you put the mast section on. You can still use your old cover with lazy jacks. Put some ties round the sail so it doesn't flop, loosen the lazy jacks and bring them to the mast and fit the cover. Not quite as convenient but only a couple of minutes extra work.
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We first fitted home built lazy jacks in about 2000, when we bought our new sails. The brand new Vectran was so slippery that the sail was impossible to handle. We kept the same system for 13 years, with only minor modification to the length and layout of lines, with a conventional mainsail cover. Like Charles, the first thing we do once we are berthed or anchored is to cover the mainsail to protect it from UV. We also needed three or four sail ties to keep our heavy sail together before fitting the cover.

Last season, having decided that we were becoming reluctant to hoist the mainsail for trips of less than a couple of hours, we decided to buy a stack pack. It came from Kemp after much exchange of e-mails and a discussion with Rob Kemp at LIBS. We both agree that it has transformed our cruising, the main is quick to hoist and superb to drop, especially in the circumstances we meet so often, wind gone to nothing but a moderate swell that makes handling the sail a bit more of a challenge. A fabulous bit of kit that we should have bought years ago.
 
vyv_cox said:
We first fitted home built lazy jacks in about 2000, when we bought our new sails. The brand new Vectran was so slippery that the sail was impossible to handle. We kept the same system for 13 years, with only minor modification to the length and layout of lines, with a conventional mainsail cover. Like Charles, the first thing we do once we are berthed or anchored is to cover the mainsail to protect it from UV. We also needed three or four sail ties to keep our heavy sail together before fitting the cover.

Last season, having decided that we were becoming reluctant to hoist the mainsail for trips of less than a couple of hours, we decided to buy a stack pack. It came from Kemp after much exchange of e-mails and a discussion with Rob Kemp at LIBS. We both agree that it has transformed our cruising, the main is quick to hoist and superb to drop, especially in the circumstances we meet so often, wind gone to nothing but a moderate swell that makes handling the sail a bit more of a challenge. A fabulous bit of kit that we should have bought years ago.
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I too had that problem - Vectran reinforcement wouldn't go below the zip-line despite using a sailmaker's mallet and many oaths. In the end I found using the main-halyard. back to the mid-lazy jacks, allowed me to lift the bag-sides enough to get the zip done up - mainsheet tight to prevent the boom lifting. Handling Vectran is hell on arthritic hands.
I'm now proposing getting a Winchrite for the main halyard - when Ian comes back from California and has some in stock. 180 turns on the halyard winch is getting a bit much for the L shoulder long head bracchi tendon which now has a 102mm gap.
Contra-indications on the Winchrite, non-interchangeable battery, and a long re-charge time on 12v. Still @ £550 it could motorise the main halyard and (perhaps) save on replacing the SL Anchorman with an electric winch.
 
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neilf39 said:
Lazy jacks make the sail handling so much easier. Having the whole thing makes it even easier, with the sail being fully stowed away and covered in seconds, or a couple of mins if you put the mast section on. You can still use your old cover with lazy jacks. Put some ties round the sail so it doesn't flop, loosen the lazy jacks and bring them to the mast and fit the cover. Not quite as convenient but only a couple of minutes extra work.
Click to expand...

I use a traditional sail cover and lazy jacks, these are permanently attached to the boom and I never even adjust them (during the season). This is possible by routing the lazy jacks from the attachment point on the side of the boom, then u n d e r the boom and up. So the port side jacks are attached on the starboard side of the boom and vice versa.
 
I should have added I have the Kemp stackpack and think it is great, sail zipped up in a few seconds. However if you don't wan't to splash out lazy jacks at least will do most of the work. I struggled for a year without lazy jacks or stackpack and now wonder why I waited so long.
 
This is our first boat with the lazy jack/stack bag combo and I wouldn't be without it now. It's so much easier to not have to tidy the sail up when only stopped for a few hours, the sail and reefing lines all drop into the bag without dropping onto the deck. At the end of the day it's just a case of zipping it up and buckling the mast cover across (which forms part of the stack bag so there is no need to completely remove it). The only very small downside is that the zipper ontop of the stack bag might be a bit difficult for some to reach if you have a high boom, especially when trying to pass the sprayhood. However, this is easily rectified with a half meter length of rope fitted to the zip with a loop in the end which can be grabbed by the boat hook.
 
Porthandbuoy, I daresay you're only going to read about the positive side of lazyjacks, here...which is appropriate, because they're fantastic!

I fitted them on my dinghy...and I can't now imagine singlehanded cruising, with the boat set up as standard...the boom releasing from the gooseneck, rolling round the deck, 100sq ft of mainsail flogging, getting in the way...ghastly! Okay, aboard a yacht with a topping lift, dropping the main needn't be that hard, but why not benefit from LJs?

Niander said:
Rig your own lazyjacks up...cheap as chips
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Everything about my set-up is cheap. I tied lines clumsily around the boom last year...it worked...so I've never untied them. Still works nicely, but it could easily have been attached properly with rivets. Admittedly it's not always easy to flake the main neatly while standing alone in a racing dinghy, but after 60 seconds with a few sail-ties, the cockpit is clear and the boat is ready to row...or haul out...or relax in, while I drop anchor and have a rest. I won't attempt to sail her again without LJs. I must fit a stack-pack next. :encouragement:

20140915_170755_zps16852ffd.jpg
 
Got a stack pack this year. Previously lazyjacks. Stackpack is better at taming the sail when it's dropped. Hides the mess better when the drop is not as orderly as you'd wish and most importantly has replaced the time taken to put the sail cover on before the sundowner with a simple walk along the combing pulling the stack pack zip.
 
Porthandbuoy said:
Title says it all really. Ladybird's getting a new mainsail made over the winter and I'm trying to decide whether to order:-
b) a Lazy-jack system fastened to the boom with a separate sail cover, or
Click to expand...

I have (b), I think - a separate sail cover which runs along the slot in the boom held in place by the sail and which has strings going up the mast to guide the sail down. Like yours, my boat is 26' long and I loathe the bloody system with a passion. It always catches a batten, or the head board, when the sail is going up and it often catches something going down as well. Although it is quicker once the sail is lowered than flaking it down on the boom, I reckon that overall it costs me time. I've heard of tricks to do with pulling the lazyjacks out of the way with string or bungee, but that seems a faff too.

When I can get round to it I plan to have a normal sailcover made, dump the lazyjacks and go back to using an octopus (bungee under the boom with cross bungees to bring over and toggle together) for holding the sail down. I'm also planning a traditional boom tent, which will be much easier with the lazyjacks gone.

From what I read, lazyjacks and stackpacks are great on bigger boats, but I think my mainsail, and therefore yours, is probably right at the point where the costs and the benefits meet.
 
Porthandbuoy said:
Some great feedback there, with the majority in favour of Stac-Pack and only JumbleDuck quite 'anti'.
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And only anti for my 26-footer. On a bigger boat I would certainly have one. It wold be interesting to know what size of boat the "for" voters have ... I'd really like to know any tricks for getting them to work on mine.
 
JumbleDuck said:
And only anti for my 26-footer. On a bigger boat I would certainly have one. It wold be interesting to know what size of boat the "for" voters have ... I'd really like to know any tricks for getting them to work on mine.
Click to expand...

Size in terms of boat length is not so relevant. I have one on my 26' - in fact just had a new one made to replace the 22 year old original. More important is the length of the foot and general size of the sail, plus whether you want to be able to do all the sail handling, including hoisting and dropping the main from the cockpit. If this is your aim there is no contest - stack pack and lazy jacks worth their weight in gold. The only thing to watch is catching battens on the LJs when hoisting, but I slacken them off when on deck to undo the zip but they still keep the sail under control when dropping.

Only changes I have made to the new one is to change the sail to loose foot and attach the bag with slides in the foot groove rather than on tracks on the side - but that is peculiar to my wooden boom.
 
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