radarman
Active Member
I have a Sadler 26 (2200kg) and am considering buying a Raymarine Tiller Pilot. Other than the extra cost is the ST2000 overkill and could it lead to other control problems.
St1000 v St2000
- Thread starter radarman
- Start date
CPD
Well-Known Member
Not overkill and if money isnt an issue then I would go for the 2000 over thye 1000 however the "leakage" issues with both models are well known.
radarman
Active Member
Is the water ingress issue still a problem? I would have thought by now that they would have fixed it!!!
Scotty_Tradewind
Well-Known Member
I believe the 2000 is not only more powerful but has a slightly quicker response.
All tiller pilots, if used whilst sailing, need the boat to be balanced with very little weather/lee helm.
Most of them do not survive for long if immersed in seawater for long and some have been known to 'die' after a splash or two.
I'm on my 2nd ST2000 and I like it even tho' it has failed due to water ingress (and raymarine have a very good repair turn around service.)
I'm sure you can read between the lines on this, but is there a much better one?
If you have a very wet boat then go more upmarket and get one with an electronics/control unit away from the ram and the wet area.
All tiller pilots, if used whilst sailing, need the boat to be balanced with very little weather/lee helm.
Most of them do not survive for long if immersed in seawater for long and some have been known to 'die' after a splash or two.
I'm on my 2nd ST2000 and I like it even tho' it has failed due to water ingress (and raymarine have a very good repair turn around service.)
I'm sure you can read between the lines on this, but is there a much better one?
If you have a very wet boat then go more upmarket and get one with an electronics/control unit away from the ram and the wet area.
RobBrown
Well-Known Member
I should be getting my ST2000+ back from Raymarine this week, needed new PCB due to water leak corrosion. £180 /forums/images/graemlins/frown.gif
Am a bit miffed as only very infrequent use of autohelm over last 3 seasons and no green water incidents, so presumably is only due to rain ingress. Any recommended way to protect it, plastic bag excepting)?
Am a bit miffed as only very infrequent use of autohelm over last 3 seasons and no green water incidents, so presumably is only due to rain ingress. Any recommended way to protect it, plastic bag excepting)?
Boomshanka
Well-Known Member
Some say a roll of clingfilm does the trick... that's a serious suggestion
ghostlymoron
Well-Known Member
I have an old T1000 which has proved adequate on my 28' Mirage. It has not been tested in extreme conditions though - and hopefully this will continue.
RobBrown
Well-Known Member
At least its a slightly more sophisticated plastic bag!
I might well try it- cheaper than anothe PCB.
I might well try it- cheaper than anothe PCB.
CPD
Well-Known Member
Yep cling film should do it really nicely.
smeaks
Well-Known Member
clingfilm?...... inspirational!
jerryat
Well-Known Member
Go for the ST2000. It's not only much more powerful, so you have a good reserve of power when things get 'heavy', but it's MUCH faster to react. Yes it's more money, but it is money investment IMHO.
WRT waterproofing. We used our 24 year old basic 2000 on a transat circuit on our Fulmar with absolutely no problems, despite some very lumpy weather. We'd taken 3 brand new ST2000's as back-ups, but never needed them. We ditched the old 2000 about three years ago (after 47K miles) and started using the first of the ST's.
We'd heard all the stories of water ingress and despite our confidence in the make, decided to make a velcro'd on cover from a spare bit of PVC covered canvas. It took about 35 minutes to make (using our old Singer) and fits over the whole of the casing, extending about 60mm over the ram/casing point.
There is a flap, held shut by Velcro which lifts up to allow quick access to the control keys and screen.
It's simple and quick to make, extremely effective, and is left permanently in position on the autopilot.
Because we were cruising in the Med/Caribbean, we made the cover from white PVC covered canvas as this gives the best UV protection as well.
I don't understand why peeps have so many problems with water ingress, but clearly there is a problem with some units. Our experience is one of complete satisifaction in the units, so perhaps we're just lucky.
BTW, I don't think cling film is a good idea at all. The unit needs to 'breathe' as the ram extends and retracts, and it seems that it the seal here that allows moisture in, depite it apparently being specifically designed foro the purpose. Putting cling film around the ram could well cause problems by preventing the seal working properly. Making our cover long enough to cover the ram entry point into the casing seems to work well.
Just my 2p worth!
WRT waterproofing. We used our 24 year old basic 2000 on a transat circuit on our Fulmar with absolutely no problems, despite some very lumpy weather. We'd taken 3 brand new ST2000's as back-ups, but never needed them. We ditched the old 2000 about three years ago (after 47K miles) and started using the first of the ST's.
We'd heard all the stories of water ingress and despite our confidence in the make, decided to make a velcro'd on cover from a spare bit of PVC covered canvas. It took about 35 minutes to make (using our old Singer) and fits over the whole of the casing, extending about 60mm over the ram/casing point.
There is a flap, held shut by Velcro which lifts up to allow quick access to the control keys and screen.
It's simple and quick to make, extremely effective, and is left permanently in position on the autopilot.
Because we were cruising in the Med/Caribbean, we made the cover from white PVC covered canvas as this gives the best UV protection as well.
I don't understand why peeps have so many problems with water ingress, but clearly there is a problem with some units. Our experience is one of complete satisifaction in the units, so perhaps we're just lucky.
BTW, I don't think cling film is a good idea at all. The unit needs to 'breathe' as the ram extends and retracts, and it seems that it the seal here that allows moisture in, depite it apparently being specifically designed foro the purpose. Putting cling film around the ram could well cause problems by preventing the seal working properly. Making our cover long enough to cover the ram entry point into the casing seems to work well.
Just my 2p worth!
Refueler
Well-Known Member
I also agree that film is not a good idea.
My Lab Techn after drying out my 800 and 1000 's decided that vaseline smeared around the seal is best way ... he also smeared the button seals ... since he did that I have no troubles with water at all.
My Lab Techn after drying out my 800 and 1000 's decided that vaseline smeared around the seal is best way ... he also smeared the button seals ... since he did that I have no troubles with water at all.
simonfraser
Well-Known Member
grease them, but as the ram goes in and out there is pumping action and damp air gets in.
Refueler
Well-Known Member
[ QUOTE ]
grease them, but as the ram goes in and out there is pumping action and damp air gets in.
[/ QUOTE ]
Maybe - but Autohelm then Raymarine specifically state do not lubricate the ram .... as Iwas told this is to prevent oil / grease dragging salt etc. in with it when ram moves in / out.
grease them, but as the ram goes in and out there is pumping action and damp air gets in.
[/ QUOTE ]
Maybe - but Autohelm then Raymarine specifically state do not lubricate the ram .... as Iwas told this is to prevent oil / grease dragging salt etc. in with it when ram moves in / out.
ianat182
Well-Known Member
Try putting a fine film of oil on the shaft removing any excess and use some bathroom sealant over the shaft and the entry point of the unit;allow the sealant to cure then operate the shaft inward to the unit .You should have a good seal then.you could also use the sealant around the unit join. If not satisfactory it is easy to remove with a Stanley blade.
radarman
Active Member
Slightly radical thought on this subject of water / damp getting in to the auto-tiller and something that is used in the electronics world a lot. Open up the beast and paint the electronics board and connections with a liberal coat or two of varnish. That should keep dampness / water from shorting sensitive electronic components. It also has the added advantage of securing any of the larger components against vibration damage.
Of course the downside is that if the electronics go wrong for any other reason then oops no warranty. /forums/images/graemlins/frown.gif So maybe wait until the warranty runs out before coating.
I'm actually quite surprised that Raymarine don't coat the assembled PCB's as standard given the environment that it is expected to live in.
Of course the downside is that if the electronics go wrong for any other reason then oops no warranty. /forums/images/graemlins/frown.gif So maybe wait until the warranty runs out before coating.
I'm actually quite surprised that Raymarine don't coat the assembled PCB's as standard given the environment that it is expected to live in.
Scotty_Tradewind
Well-Known Member
Hi Rob
If mine gets at all wet, I now take it home at the end of the trip and stick it in the airing cupboard 'til next time.
One thing I did do as well as grease on the ram slide, was to stick a blob of grease up the mounting pin pivot. Up there is a gap and my theory is that this is a point that water gets in if you really do have a lot of the green stuff hit you. However, you probably should have reverted to using other methods of steering once conditions get that bad, but the surprise wave may still get you.
If you'r in the Oxford area you must have an even longer trip to the Solent area than me? I'm in S.Oxfordshire and have a S' mooring in the lake above Portsmouth.
I like radar mans idea of varnishing the electronics board. Shellac could be the answer?
Perhaps to cling film each day and then undo it at the end to let breathe?
I actually posted about these problems a year or more ago and at Aldernay and Cherbourg I had to open my first one up and dry it out in the gents loo under the hand drier for an hour before it would go again.
Raymarine thought I had been overworking it and so distorted the case whilst wet etc.
cheers,
Scotty
If mine gets at all wet, I now take it home at the end of the trip and stick it in the airing cupboard 'til next time.
One thing I did do as well as grease on the ram slide, was to stick a blob of grease up the mounting pin pivot. Up there is a gap and my theory is that this is a point that water gets in if you really do have a lot of the green stuff hit you. However, you probably should have reverted to using other methods of steering once conditions get that bad, but the surprise wave may still get you.
If you'r in the Oxford area you must have an even longer trip to the Solent area than me? I'm in S.Oxfordshire and have a S' mooring in the lake above Portsmouth.
I like radar mans idea of varnishing the electronics board. Shellac could be the answer?
Perhaps to cling film each day and then undo it at the end to let breathe?
I actually posted about these problems a year or more ago and at Aldernay and Cherbourg I had to open my first one up and dry it out in the gents loo under the hand drier for an hour before it would go again.
Raymarine thought I had been overworking it and so distorted the case whilst wet etc.
cheers,
Scotty
bluedragon
Well-Known Member
No probs with my ST1000+ (fingers crossed) but can you easily take these apart to check for corrosion? PCB coating sounds like a great idea.
RobBrown
Well-Known Member
Yes a bit of a trip, but not too bad- about 70 mins door to cockpit, as we're on the Hamble. Interested in your trips to the CI, plans to do that with the family for this summer's 2 week trip.
Thanks all for tips on preventing leaks. I did also ask the Raymarine repair guys to give any advice on preventing leaks when returning the unit, so if any helpful advice arrives back with the ST, I'll post again on here.
Thanks all for tips on preventing leaks. I did also ask the Raymarine repair guys to give any advice on preventing leaks when returning the unit, so if any helpful advice arrives back with the ST, I'll post again on here.
Chrissie
Well-Known Member
I have a contessa 26 and my st1000's keep breaking, Raymarine said with a boat such as the contessa it would be worth having the ST2000 as it is stronger and faster, so consider the weather and conditions you put your boat through, and go for the ST2000!
