St Helier

[Kurrawong_Kid]

Re: Conclusions accurate?

Humm quite so quite so.

The difficulty with recruiting and training Senior Staff to any Charity is getting the 'right stuff' in the first place, I would suggest? Just maybe this time some Senior Managers / Directors are perhaps 'square pegs in a round hole' when it comes down to working and Managing dedicated Volunteers on whom the whole Charity depends.
The RNLI Management certainly does not make the RNLI what it is today, (or perhaps was), its the dedication, experience, abilities, willingness, knowledge etc etc of the Volunteers
If the RNLI folded this week, might suggest that enough Lifeboats could be found to man the Stations adequately, using the present Volunteers and the Local support available.
There are Lifeboats designed, built, sold by other countries and the inshore Ribs abound in Manufacturers leaflets.
There is now enough Knowledge to acquire modified Out Boards to an RNLI standard so no probs there.
Might suggest that part of the present problems are around the apparent recent regs about Charities and the implementation of a system where there are really no Volunteers as was known, Charities appear to being obliged to take any consenting Volunteers into a Staffing situation with the Charity where a Charity / Company Volunteer has to apply and be checked out first then offered, if thought suitable, a Contact of Unpaid Employment but abiding rules and Management with the Charity/Company and so the relationship between Volunteer and Management in a Charity is then difficult.
In this situation I can quite see that any long standing Volunteer (old style) might find it difficult to adopt and adapt to the changes in decision making imposed upon them.

Exactly the points I was trying to make earlier, but you have explained the problem far more clearly than me. I take my hat off to you!

 

[Robin]

Re: Conclusions accurate?

How about simply ceding The island of Jersey to France/EU then let Sybarite's friends at the SNNSM do it all for just a few measly euros . :biggrin-new::biggrin-new:

Just be grateful the RNLI isn't USCG (another arm of their military) who could turn up all guns blazing or drop a steel basket on your head from on high if they deem conditions safe enough for a helo flight. RNLI every time best in the world, none better.:encouragement:

 

[Sybarite]

Thanks for this link SailingSaves, about the most reliable info I've seen so far.

https://jerseyeveningpost.com/news/...feboat-crews-rnli-split-8-questions-answered/

Whatever the rights and wrongs I suspect the RNLI will find it easier to source a new crew than the Crew will find it to source a new Building/Boat and running costs.

"The RNLI, the JEP understands, recently spent ‘millions’ updating the pontoon and surrounding area where the St Helier all-weather vessel is stationed....."

Really?

https://www.google.fr/search?q=Jers...UIDCgD&biw=1920&bih=949#imgrc=YgODjOzQlUOZHM:

Millions?

 

[Stork_III]

"The RNLI, the JEP understands, recently spent ‘millions’ updating the pontoon and surrounding area where the St Helier all-weather vessel is stationed....."

Really?

https://www.google.fr/search?q=Jers...UIDCgD&biw=1920&bih=949#imgrc=YgODjOzQlUOZHM:

Millions?

Looks Like it to me.

 

[rotrax]

Looks Like it to me.

Perhaps that is the new St Helier Independent boat...............................

 

[rotrax]

"The RNLI, the JEP understands, recently spent ‘millions’ updating the pontoon and surrounding area where the St Helier all-weather vessel is stationed....."

Really?

https://www.google.fr/search?q=Jers...UIDCgD&biw=1920&bih=949#imgrc=YgODjOzQlUOZHM:

Millions?

Have they been too frugal? Not spent ENOUGH money?

Make your mind up!

 

[Sybarite]

Have they been too frugal? Not spent ENOUGH money?

Make your mind up!

If that pontoon installation is worth millions then something (else) is seriously wrong.

 

[RichardS]

I have spoken to a LB crew member of 30 years standing who has seen some of the emails which he describes as "vile and disgusting"

since the full facts are not public no one can say who is to blame looking at the FB post I copied it would appear that the coxswain had been close to or had overstepped the mark before

you would agree I hope that any large organisation has to have rules or whatever that it has a right to impose, the most important clause in the RNLI code of conduct is perhaps that which ask all f/t and volunteers not to act in a way which could cause harm to it

So "vile and disgusting" that the RNLI had to re-instate the Coxswain and offer a full apology?

It doesn't make sense that a competent management team would behave in such an inconsistent way. There must be something that we are not being told.

Richard

 

[Poecheng]

I have been pondering how you provide a replacement lifeboat crew in a place like St Helier in these circumstances.
Where there is a lifeboat tragedy and a lifeboat is lost you will lose some but not all of the crew and the bulk of the local organisation and balance of the crew remains in place from which to promote and keep going whilst you recruit up to full strength.
With a commercial company that simply has to be located in a particular place, you pay for people to move there to make it happen.

In April 2017 the entire lifeboat crew and shore-based admin apparently walked out. Chief Fundraiser is Mrs Hibbs (reckon fair chance it is coxswain's mother). The RNLI Jersey website (strangely silent about these events) lists the full crew and they seem to come from different families and I did not spot a common surname.

There will be a very limited percentage of the population near St Helier with boating skills and even fewer who have the time, freedom, inclination and bravery to be a lifeboat crew. So from a very small cohort you have to form a crew. But you are in St Helier and, I imagine, loyalties run deep as they are likely to do in most communities that provide lifeboat crews - they are rarely big, anonymous cities. You either will know one of the existing crew and would be unwilling to go against them. But even if you didnt know anyone, why would you put yourself forward knowing that you will likely be considered to have 'broken ranks'.

I expect it will be very difficult replacing a crew. And that is without a picket line. You cannot use money to make things happen.

 

[Capt Popeye]

Re: Conclusions accurate?

Exactly the points I was trying to make earlier, but you have explained the problem far more clearly than me. I take my hat off to you!

Humm well thank you kind Sir thank you ! :encouragement:

Yes indeed I see it as a problem, might ask, when you see a Collection Box thrust at you, do you see a picture of a Lifeboat Man /Woman on the box, or do you see a picture of the RNLI CEO or a Line Manager on the box ? possibly with a nice Company Car ?

Might suggest that when one is choosing to donate one is influenced by the History, Knowledge and the Pictures on the Box ?

 

[Poecheng]

So "vile and disgusting" that the RNLI had to re-instate the Coxswain and offer a full apology?

It doesn't make sense that a competent management team would behave in such an inconsistent way. There must be something that we are not being told.

Richard

The fact I haven't a clue will not prevent me from offering an opinion

I imagine than someone with the personal qualities to be an experienced coxswain of an important lifeboat station may, in response to false or petty accusations, express themselves rather differently from someone helming a desk in Poole.

"Oooh, I am all offended, that's sooooo unprofessional." counts for more than 25 years of plucking people out of the sea.

 

[Capt Popeye]

The fact I haven't a clue will not prevent me from offering an opinion

I imagine than someone with the personal qualities to be an experienced coxswain of an important lifeboat station may, in response to false or petty accusations, express themselves rather differently from someone helming a desk in Poole.

"Oooh, I am all offended, that's sooooo unprofessional." counts for more than 25 years of plucking people out of the sea.

Humm quite so quite so kind Sir

 

[Daydream believer]

The RNLI cannot let the coxswain carry on influencing the show now it has got to such a stage, regardless of who is at fault.
Whatever happened in the past it seems to me that Hibbs is the problem now.

Andy Hibbs should be persuaded to back away & have nothing to do with the RNLI any more including any influence on the crew & not try stunts like alternative life boats.
That has to be explained to him that he is ruining the lifeboat service & it is not what the people of Jersey would want. His father, Billy, was a Coxswain before him & a word in his ear may help if he is still passionate about the RNLI as he used to be.
Apologies from either side will do no good. If Hibbs returns he will be lauding his "victory" & the RNLI cannot have that.

The RNLI needs to find a really good person to make contact & build a new relationship with the existing membership.
The crew probably enjoyed the service and are possibly fed up that they can no longer serve on the lifeboat.
The crew should be persuaded to return to the fold.

A new coxswain needs to be found with good leadership skills & the ability to mould the crew again. He should get 100% support from HQ. That does not mean just some office whalla but top level management.
Once the boat returns & the locals see it out saving people the Hibbs incident will be forgotten.

 

[Capt Popeye]

The RNLI cannot let the coxswain carry on influencing the show now it has got to such a stage, regardless of who is at fault.
Whatever happened in the past it seems to me that Hibbs is the problem now.

Andy Hibbs should be persuaded to back away & have nothing to do with the RNLI any more including any influence on the crew & not try stunts like alternative life boats.
That has to be explained to him that he is ruining the lifeboat service & it is not what the people of Jersey would want. His father, Billy, was a Coxswain before him & a word in his ear may help if he is still passionate about the RNLI as he used to be.
Apologies from either side will do no good. If Hibbs returns he will be lauding his "victory" & the RNLI cannot have that.

The RNLI needs to find a really good person to make contact & build a new relationship with the existing membership.
The crew probably enjoyed the service and are possibly fed up that they can no longer serve on the lifeboat.
The crew should be persuaded to return to the fold.

A new coxswain needs to be found with good leadership skills & the ability to mould the crew again. He should get 100% support from HQ. That does not mean just some office whalla but top level management.
Once the boat returns & the locals see it out saving people the Hibbs incident will be forgotten.

Humm might I ask are you in Politics by any chance ?

Is, the end justifies the process

 

[petem]

The RNLI cannot let the coxswain carry on influencing the show now it has got to such a stage, regardless of who is at fault.
Whatever happened in the past it seems to me that Hibbs is the problem now.

Andy Hibbs should be persuaded to back away & have nothing to do with the RNLI any more including any influence on the crew & not try stunts like alternative life boats.
That has to be explained to him that he is ruining the lifeboat service & it is not what the people of Jersey would want. His father, Billy, was a Coxswain before him & a word in his ear may help if he is still passionate about the RNLI as he used to be.
Apologies from either side will do no good. If Hibbs returns he will be lauding his "victory" & the RNLI cannot have that.

The RNLI needs to find a really good person to make contact & build a new relationship with the existing membership.
The crew probably enjoyed the service and are possibly fed up that they can no longer serve on the lifeboat.
The crew should be persuaded to return to the fold.

A new coxswain needs to be found with good leadership skills & the ability to mould the crew again. He should get 100% support from HQ. That does not mean just some office whalla but top level management.
Once the boat returns & the locals see it out saving people the Hibbs incident will be forgotten.

Well said, my thoughts exactly.

 

[Sailingsaves]

The RNLI cannot let the coxswain carry on influencing the show now it has got to such a stage, regardless of who is at fault.
Whatever happened in the past it seems to me that Hibbs is the problem now.

Andy Hibbs should be persuaded to back away & have nothing to do with the RNLI any more including any influence on the crew & not try stunts like alternative life boats.
That has to be explained to him that he is ruining the lifeboat service & it is not what the people of Jersey would want. His father, Billy, was a Coxswain before him & a word in his ear may help if he is still passionate about the RNLI as he used to be.
Apologies from either side will do no good. If Hibbs returns he will be lauding his "victory" & the RNLI cannot have that.

The RNLI needs to find a really good person to make contact & build a new relationship with the existing membership.
The crew probably enjoyed the service and are possibly fed up that they can no longer serve on the lifeboat.
The crew should be persuaded to return to the fold.

A new coxswain needs to be found with good leadership skills & the ability to mould the crew again. He should get 100% support from HQ. That does not mean just some office whalla but top level management.
Once the boat returns & the locals see it out saving people the Hibbs incident will be forgotten.

Quite an opinion there especially as we don't know a lot.

A coxswain will have a lot of local knowledge and experience.

He is a volunteer unlike the managers and Ms Leesa Harwood (now managing two posts).

If his email was vile and disgusting, that would be someone's opinion. How many of the managers would have seen the vile and disgusting bloated stinking bodies he would have retrieved. One's person disgusting is not another's.

Sticks and stones break bones but words are words.

A very badly handled situation. Obviously I am erring on the side of the volunteers (without knowing all the facts), but to take the boat away means the crew cannot answer a shout if one were to arise. I would bet money (and I don't bet as a rule) that the crew would respond to a shout. They want to become independent, they did not withdraw their services. Even when 'on strike' they still performed (for free, as volunteers) as I understand it.

People that face death to help others are a breed apart; they should be handled as a special breed.

If I set sail for Jersey tomorrow and hit a rock on purpose and sacrifice my life on purpose (that I have little regard for), would that get some action from the RNLI offices?

I am sure the volunteers would be rowing any vessel they could get their hands on to help retrieve my body whilst the RNLI vessel is being serviced.

 

[Daydream believer]

I am sure the volunteers would be rowing any vessel they could get their hands on to help retrieve my body whilst the RNLI vessel is being serviced.

They possibly would - the point being that they would do it with far more enthusiasm without having the feeling in the back of their minds that they were somehow stabbing their ex Coxswain in the back. It is his presence that is probably stopping them doing their job because of their allegiance to him. It does not matter whether he is right or wrong.

 

[Poecheng]

They possibly would - the point being that they would do it with far more enthusiasm without having the feeling in the back of their minds that they were somehow stabbing their ex Coxswain in the back. It is his presence that is probably stopping them doing their job because of their allegiance to him. It does not matter whether he is right or wrong.

Is not the effect of your posts that no value is placed on loyalty - it is seen only as an obstacle to progress rather than as a positive attribute.
(not intended as a personal criticism)

 

[guernseyman]

Is not the effect of your posts that no value is placed on loyalty - it is seen only as an obstacle to progress rather than as a positive attribute.
(not intended as a personal criticism)

There is a lot of special pleading going on here. The coxswain is no doubt a good man but has made the RNLI believe they cannot any longer work with him. The crew are currently being tribal, making the situation impossible.

A few years ago I was in County Cork where a lifeboat coxswain had been dismissed by the RNLI for a lesser offence than the St Helier one - making an unplanned excursion on the return trip from a festive visit. The crew and (very small) local community thought that the decision was harsh but understandable. Life and business carried on.

 

[fisherman]

.

A coxswain will have a lot of local knowledge and experience.

Ours was parachuted in from elsewhere, someone said to fill his last few years before retirement. He wouldn't have known the place at all. The chap who thought he was in line was miffed, and left I think.