St Helier

guernseyman said:
A few years ago I was in County Cork where a lifeboat coxswain had been dismissed by the RNLI for a lesser offence than the St Helier one - making an unplanned excursion on the return trip from a festive visit. The crew and (very small) local community thought that the decision was harsh but understandable. Life and business carried on.
Click to expand...

What, exactly, is the offence that the St Helier Coxswain has been dismissed for?

Richard
 
fisherman said:
Ours was parachuted in from elsewhere, someone said to fill his last few years before retirement. He wouldn't have known the place at all. The chap who thought he was in line was miffed, and left I think.
Click to expand...

If what you say is as plain as it seems (i.e. the chap in line would surely have had more local knowledge) then does that says something about the managers at the RNLI?

I have tonnes of respect for people that offer their lives to save others (and these guys do it on a volunteer basis - it is not like they are in the military and being paid), but I don't have as much respect for the paid managers at the moment.
 
As far as I can make out he was suspended for using the RNLI boat to spread someone's ashes.

After discovering he had used his own boat he was reinstated. I imagine he was a bit miffed. Perhaps the RNLI could have calmed him down a bit better? Apologised a bit better? I don't know.

Did he then send emails to the managers of the RNLI that were deemed "vile and disgusting"?

Also appears that there was some argument going on with the (then) harbourmaster and assistant harbourmaster and I have found no information about that.

A station manager was placed in charge and this possibly miffed the coxswain.

Fact is, if a life needed saving there is a crew ready (even if they want to become independent at some stage - they did not withdraw their services) but NO boat to get them to a casualty.

Leaving the boat there would have meant the crew had the opportunity (and I am sure they would have taken the opportunity) to respond to a shout, even if the station manager is grumbling to the crew and the harbourmaster is grumbling. All grumbling could carry on whilst crew saved a life.

I hope a lifesaving option is put in place soon as even some leisure sailors still sail at this time of year. Thank goodness the recent foundering of vessel did not result in the loss of two lives.
 
Sailingsaves said:
I have tonnes of respect for people that offer their lives to save others (and these guys do it on a volunteer basis - it is not like they are in the military and being paid), but I don't have as much respect for the paid managers at the moment.
Click to expand...

Whenever the salaries of RNLI managers are brought up we are told that paying peanuts gets monkeys. I wonder if it's harder to find good HR people to risk paper cuts or good lifeboat crews to risk death.
 
Sailingsaves said:
A coxswain will have a lot of local knowledge and experience.
.
Click to expand...

That is not necessarily so. I met a coxswain on a life boat who had moved from an area very near me to an area up north, where I used to live.
I asked him how he came to be coxswain. He said that being fed up with life & the rat race in Essex he applied for the job of harbour master & got it.
When the local RNLI found out that he had qualifications as a fishing boat skipper he was immediately drafted to the lifeboat & given the job of cox simply because the area had no one else qualified who would do the job.
He laughed & said he had no choice really, he was just told that it was expected. He said he was immediately taken into the community & was loving every bit of it.
My point is, that whilst he was an experienced skipper he had no local knowledge & little experience on a lifeboat when he took over.
 
Whatever else about Hibbs, one has to consider things from the persepctive of the crew.

A shout goes out and the crew rush to the station. Look outside the harbour and the sea is a boiling cauldron. Whenthe put to sea the crew are putting their lives on the line and faith in the cox. They know if he screws it up, they are in serious trouble.

Ask yourself, would you put to sea when all others are safely ashore with someone you trust, or someone parachuted in from Pool?
 
Tomahawk said:
Whatever else about Hibbs, one has to consider things from the persepctive of the crew.

A shout goes out and the crew rush to the station. Look outside the harbour and the sea is a boiling cauldron. Whenthe put to sea the crew are putting their lives on the line and faith in the cox. They know if he screws it up, they are in serious trouble.

Ask yourself, would you put to sea when all others are safely ashore with someone you trust, or someone parachuted in from Pool?
Click to expand...

Give the nature of the gentlemen from Poole with parachutes, I'd be more than happy with the latter.
 
Is there still confusion over the original event that sparked this off? It seems that the cox was reprimanded for an unofficial launch. That launch seems to have either been to spread ashes, or to take a boat in tow? Which is it?

It then turns out that the cox was out on his own boat at the time. This is curious, cos it wouldn't have taken much effort, at the very early stages, to prove this.

Could it be, and this is pure supposition, that the boat was called out unofficially for a tow, and the boat that it was called to assist was, in fact, the coxwain's boat? You could imagine how this might upset someone in the local commercial towing business?

Whatever the cause, I think I agree that it seems to have been badly handled on both sides, and no one appears to come out of it in a good light, at least with the information available at this time.
 
CLB said:
Is there still confusion over the original event that sparked this off? It seems that the cox was reprimanded for an unofficial launch. That launch seems to have either been to spread ashes, or to take a boat in tow? Which is it?

It then turns out that the cox was out on his own boat at the time. This is curious, cos it wouldn't have taken much effort, at the very early stages, to prove this.

Could it be, and this is pure supposition, that the boat was called out unofficially for a tow, and the boat that it was called to assist was, in fact, the coxwain's boat? You could imagine how this might upset someone in the local commercial towing business?

Whatever the cause, I think I agree that it seems to have been badly handled on both sides, and no one appears to come out of it in a good light, at least with the information available at this time.
Click to expand...

I think it's the "spreading ashes" which turned out to be the Coxswain's own boat. As you say, the RNLI apologised for even investigating the claim when all they needed to do was ask the Cox whether he used the Lifeboat and the answer would have to the truth as it would be so easy to check.

I suspect that the Cox believes that this was a malicious allegation made by someone who is deliberately trying to smear his reputation. He has then asked the RNLI for the identity of the informer and the RNLI has hidden behind the fantasy "data protection" excuse. The Cox has probably told them in words of a few syllables that they are talking absolute bollux, which they are so he has then, quite rightly, begun to suspect some kind of cover-up/collusion/conspiracy between whoever is the local malicious informer and some people within the RNLI and has demanded answers.

He has then been sacked because he is not going to stop demanding answers .... but then the RNLI have had to re-instate him because someone has told them that this will turn into a PR/fund-raising disaster because when all the facts come out many RNLI donators are going to draw the same "collusion/conspiracy" link that the Cox and his team have drawn.

This is all conjecture on my part but after 35 years in senior management investigating many similar cases, I have a keen nose for these things.

(I will be available shortly if the RNLI/Local Volunteer Team wish to commission my services as a pendulum arbitrator. However, I have two cases ongoing at the moment which will be going to court unless the employers concerned begin to see sense in the next few days. ;) )

Richard
 
The JEP has seen CCTV footage of the yacht travelling towards the buoy which was brightly lit at the time of the accident. The collision destroyed the top section of the buoy and Mr Sadler said the whole unit will have to be replaced.
 
Wow. This has gotten a bit silly.

Richard seams to have it summed up. Replace the words Charity and Volunteer with company and employee. In This case now employee's.
Management have over reacted to an allegation without having properly investigated and determined the actual facts. The allegation turns out to be false.
Management screwed the pooch here. So an apology and reinstatement.
Employee still angry says to much unfortunately in writing in an email.
Employee gets the boot.
Other employees see this as unjust and in solidarity with their pal down tools.
Instead of trying to reach a settlement.
Management brings in replacement employees. (since when has this ever helped to calm things down) We have a word for replacement employee's where I am from. but its quite rude.
Management gets tired of replacing everyone.
So they say were cant have the employee winning. We are going to take our ball and go home. Shut the plant down.

No everyone looses and they all look stupid.

Looks like walks like and quacks like. A British car plant from the 70s and a Union on strike.

Time to negotiate a settlement.
If that don't work get an arbitrator.

Its not about who wins. Its about finding a settlement both sides can live with.

PS Under normal employment rules. The Cox could have filed a complaint about what he feels was a malicious allegation which if that were the case could and should result in disciplinary action.
Could the cox be fired for an email. yes if it was threatening and abused someone's human rights although it would have to be pretty dam bad. I suspect its more like sour grapes after the apology and reinstatement and being used as a justification rather than delt with fairly.

Power to the people. Solidarity forever. What's the best way to get a strong solid union? Stupid Managers.:)
 
Last edited:
rich said:
The JEP has seen CCTV footage of the yacht travelling towards the buoy which was brightly lit at the time of the accident. The collision destroyed the top section of the buoy and Mr Sadler said the whole unit will have to be replaced.
Click to expand...

Is that the MoBo that hit a buoy at night recently? Saw on the MoBo forum there was talk about it doing 46Kts. Maybe not quite a safe speed for the prevailing circumstances and conditions.
 
Uricanejack said:
Power to the people. Solidarity forever. What's the best way to get a strong solid union? Stupid Managers.:)
Click to expand...

Cannot help feeling that throughout this thread there is the assumption that the RNLI is the party that is at fault.
Whilst i admit that I rarely see any criticism of the volunteers at the "working end" of the organisation throughout this PBO forum I see a lot of RNLI bashing for the management.
I sometimes wonder if that is fair

In this particular situation -Having not heard their side of the argument- I cannot help wondering if they really are the aggressors that they are made out to be.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.

Share this page

Top