SSR - Should I renew?

[chinita]

Better than using our fag packet as a fag packet of convenience.

 

[LadyInBed]

You don't even need to have a boat - you can SSR a fag packet if you like.

I have said this before, I know people with three certificates for the same boat - all different LOA.

They present which ever one they think they can get away with to the marina office.

Yes, I had my 33ft boat registered at 10mtrs. I then realised that 10mtrs was a charge increment point at many mariners so on next renewal I had the length changed to 9.97
Plus it isn't even a book these days, just a laminated bit of paper!

 

[viago]

On reflection I can think of one. for a blue ensign if its a privileged club

an interesting point.

do i really need permission to fly a defaced blue flag? if so, from whom? are there any penalties for doing so if not in one of the chosen clubs? can i design my own?

not that i intend to, unlikely to declare myself a commercial entity by flying a red flag either. the devon flag will do fine.

 

[Koeketiene]

do i really need permission to fly a defaced blue flag? if so, from whom? are there any penalties for doing so if not in one of the chosen clubs? can i design my own?

 

[lustyd]

the devon flag will do fine.

As long as you never go anywhere then yes, I suppose that's true enough.

 

[macd]

do i really need permission to fly a defaced blue flag? if so, from whom? are there any penalties for doing so if not in one of the chosen clubs?

Yes you do. If you don't have the necessary right to show any British colours, they can be seized and forfeited to Her Majesty by any commissioned naval or military officer, any officer of customs and excise or any British consular officer (who I daresay are thick on the ground in Devon). You can also be fined.

Bet that makes you quiver.

 

[chinita]

He viago!

Give me a shout when you go ahead with it.

I will come down and do the seizing, forfeiting and fining.

It will be my pleasure

 

[VicS]

an interesting point.

do i really need permission to fly a defaced blue flag? if so, from whom? are there any penalties for doing so if not in one of the chosen clubs? can i design my own?

not that i intend to, unlikely to declare myself a commercial entity by flying a red flag either. the devon flag will do fine.

Yes

Certain clubs are authorised by the Secretary of State for Defence to issue permits to members to use a "Special Ensign"

Special ensigns are the White Ensign ( RYS only), Blue and defaced Blue Ensigns, defaced Red Ensigns and the defaced Blue Ensign of the RAF Sailing Association

Various conditions and restrictions apply, one of which is that the yacht must be British registered ( part I or Part III) or on the register of ships of a relevant British possession.

It is an offence, with unlimited fine, under the Merchant Shipping act to hoist the Union flag or any of the above Ensigns without authorisation.

 

[viago]

He viago!

Give me a shout when you go ahead with it.

I will come down and do the seizing, forfeiting and fining.

It will be my pleasure

cor blimey, flying the wrong colour flag seems to be taken as a more serious offense than armed robbery.


as for lusty d what do you mean by "anywhere"? i could be wrong but, as i understand it, the requirement when visiting foreign parts is to fly your national flag which, the last time a checked, was the union jack.

would a devon flag with a union flag inserted into one of the corners suffice to visit france? i was thinking bottom right quadrant. (the flag, not france)


(actually, in the interests or entete cordiale, it's about time aquataine was returned to us)

 

[macd]

Various conditions and restrictions apply, one of which is that the yacht must be British registered ( part I or Part III) or on the register of ships of a relevant British possession.

Can't believe I'm posting about the minutiae of ensigns, but is that strictly correct, Vic? My reading is that the yacht need not be British registered but need be eligible for such registration. To whit, section 1 d of the relevant act prescribes that a British ship may wear British colours, and that a British ship is (amongst other things):
a small ship other than a fishing vessel and—
(i)is not registered under Part II, but
(ii)is wholly owned by qualified owners, and
(iii)is not registered under the law of a country outside the United Kingdom.

Which would seem to suggest there's no need for clubs to require registration before allowing the use of blue ensigns (unless, presumably, something in their warrant says otherwise).

 

[chinita]

Quite apart from the MoD rules (I don't have my permit to hand so can't check), the club can demand what it likes. If you don't fulfil their requirements you don't get the permit. There is no back door route.

 

[Tranona]

Can't believe I'm posting about the minutiae of ensigns, but is that strictly correct, Vic? My reading is that the yacht need not be British registered but need be eligible for such registration. To whit, section 1 d of the relevant act prescribes that a British ship may wear British colours, and that a British ship is (amongst other things):
a small ship other than a fishing vessel and—
(i)is not registered under Part II, but
(ii)is wholly owned by qualified owners, and
(iii)is not registered under the law of a country outside the United Kingdom.

Which would seem to suggest there's no need for clubs to require registration before allowing the use of blue ensigns (unless, presumably, something in their warrant says otherwise).

Read Condition 2 on the back of your permit (if you have one). Definitely requires registration (Part I or III) (and be over 2T gross or 7m length).

 

[Tranona]

cor blimey, flying the wrong colour flag seems to be taken as a more serious offense than armed robbery.


as for lusty d what do you mean by "anywhere"? i could be wrong but, as i understand it, the requirement when visiting foreign parts is to fly your national flag which, the last time a checked, was the union jack.

would a devon flag with a union flag inserted into one of the corners suffice to visit france? i was thinking bottom right quadrant. (the flag, not france)


(actually, in the interests or entete cordiale, it's about time aquataine was returned to us)

Why are you trying to make up your own "rules" when the requirements and rules are well established and known by all who have can be bothered to read them.

 

[VicS]

Can't believe I'm posting about the minutiae of ensigns, but is that strictly correct, Vic? My reading is that the yacht need not be British registered but need be eligible for such registration. To whit, section 1 d of the relevant act prescribes that a British ship may wear British colours, and that a British ship is (amongst other things):
a small ship other than a fishing vessel and—
(i)is not registered under Part II, but
(ii)is wholly owned by qualified owners, and
(iii)is not registered under the law of a country outside the United Kingdom.

Which would seem to suggest there's no need for clubs to require registration before allowing the use of blue ensigns (unless, presumably, something in their warrant says otherwise).

My source is the online revised version of the RYA booklet on flag etiquette. (q.v.) Talking about the special Ensigns though. What you say applies to the Red Ensign.

 

[viago]

Can't believe I'm posting about the minutiae of ensigns, but is that strictly correct, Vic? My reading is that the yacht need not be British registered but need be eligible for such registration. To whit, section 1 d of the relevant act prescribes that a British ship may wear British colours, and that a British ship is (amongst other things):
a small ship other than a fishing vessel and—
(i)is not registered under Part II, but
(ii)is wholly owned by qualified owners, and
(iii)is not registered under the law of a country outside the United Kingdom.

Which would seem to suggest there's no need for clubs to require registration before allowing the use of blue ensigns (unless, presumably, something in their warrant says otherwise).

very interesting.

the issue of definitiond must come into play too.

i would have thought that the definition of "ship", small or otherwise, is a commercial one. to register as a "ship" is to declare one's vessel a commercial entity whereas what i have is a personal conveyance.

i suspect that the maritime act cannot legally be applied to personal conveyances. i could have chinita by the proverbials.

if, as vics says, it is an offence for a (ship) to raise a union flag without permission and you have declared yourself a ship by registering with the ssr then you might be in trouble by doing do so but if your toy is not registered i know of no flag regulations which can be enforced.

the crown may only seize property which is registered as the act of registration hands legal ownership to the crown.
however, since we are registered at birth, is it possible for an entity owned by the crown to actually legally own anything?

 

[VicS]

very interesting.

Maybe, but your ramblings thoughts and opinions are becoming very tedious.

All the information is out there ......... go look it up and read thoroughly.

 

[Tranona]

very interesting.

the issue of definitiond must come into play too.

i would have thought that the definition of "ship", small or otherwise, is a commercial one. to register as a "ship" is to declare one's vessel a commercial entity whereas what i have is a personal conveyance.

i suspect that the maritime act cannot legally be applied to personal conveyances. i could have chinita by the proverbials.

if, as vics says, it is an offence for a (ship) to raise a union flag without permission and you have declared yourself a ship by registering with the ssr then you might be in trouble by doing do so but if your toy is not registered i know of no flag regulations which can be enforced.

the crown may only seize property which is registered as the act of registration hands legal ownership to the crown.
however, since we are registered at birth, is it possible for an entity owned by the crown to actually legally own anything?

Do yourself a favour and read the Merchant Shipping Act.

Then you would not be making such stupid statements.

 

[chinita]

very interesting.

the issue of definitiond must come into play too.

i would have thought that the definition of "ship", small or otherwise, is a commercial one. to register as a "ship" is to declare one's vessel a commercial entity whereas what i have is a personal conveyance.

i suspect that the maritime act cannot legally be applied to personal conveyances. i could have chinita by the proverbials.

if, as vics says, it is an offence for a (ship) to raise a union flag without permission and you have declared yourself a ship by registering with the ssr then you might be in trouble by doing do so but if your toy is not registered i know of no flag regulations which can be enforced.

the crown may only seize property which is registered as the act of registration hands legal ownership to the crown.
however, since we are registered at birth, is it possible for an entity owned by the crown to actually legally own anything?

Brilliant!

ROFLMAO!

 

[pmagowan]

Do yourself a favour and read the Merchant Shipping Act.

Then you would not be making such stupid statements.

I am not sure that is true.

 

[viago]

Do yourself a favour and read the Merchant Shipping Act.

Then you would not be making such stupid statements.

i am hardly likely to trawl my way through an act which applies to merchant shipping to find out out what regulations apply to a non commercial conveyance. mine is not a vehicle either as a vehicle is a commercial entity.

the clue is in the words dumbcopf, read again "the merchant shipping act".

is your boat a merchant ship?