SSB antenna. whip or back stay ?

[Jassira]

I plan to fit an HF radio, probably an ICOM 801E, in the not too distance future, but right now I am replacing the standing rigging.

As I understand things I have a choice of using the back stay, which is about 20m long, or fitting a whip antenna of about 7m.
I'm a little concerned about comprising the back stay with insulators, although I have to say, I've never heard of any problems and I assume I'd get better performance with the longer length of the back stay, but a whip antenna should still be there (hopefully) if the mast fell off.

I would appreciate your opinions and experiences on the antenna and/or the radio

 

[Three kings]

Either the whip or backstay will do the job just as long as you stay within the ideal range (7 - 15 metres) which will allow the ATU to do it's job and avoid half or multiple wavelengths. The length of the backstay will normally give better results on lower frequencies in the 2 - 4MHz range.

Remember the antenna starts at the top of the ATU and if using the backstay it should be sited as close to the stay as possible. Mine was under the aft cabin bunk and when moved to the lazarette resulted in a big performance difference. I use the backstay and keep the insulators clean and free of corrosion. Also use stand off clips to keep the high voltage cable at least 2 - 3 inches away from the lower part of the backstay.

The Icom 801E is a good unit, albeit expensive, and whilst I have had no problems with it, I'm told by others that they had a pleasant experience when dealing with Icom for service issues.

 

[tri39]

I plan to fit an HF radio, probably an ICOM 801E, in the not too distance future, but right now I am replacing the standing rigging.
I would appreciate your opinions and experiences on the antenna and/or the radio

If you're replacing the rigging, then certainly fit insulators. They are strong enough, mine have lasted twenty years!
Some even make do with one only at the top, presuming a plastic boat! Depends on boat layout of course, don't fry anyone in a rear cabin!!
Whip aerials are heavy beasts, better suited to mobs.
There are many cheaper radios!!

 

[prv]

There is a third choice, which is to hoist up a wire aerial only when you need to use it. Some people thread a wire into the sheath from a braided rope, for ease of handling. No idea how this compares as I haven't touched HF since a few scanty Signals lessons in Cadets, but I know some people do it and I thought it worth mentioning.

For what it's worth, trying to mount a 7 metre fibreglass pole on the average sailing boat sounds like a pain in the bum to me. The motorboating folks have to do it as they are sadly deficient in masts, but they also don't have sails and rigging to get in the way.

Pete

 

[geem]

I crossed the Atlantic a few years a go on my catamaran. We had an old Furuno ssb unit and a 26ft whip antenna. Superb radio reception all the way across the ocean. Would like to use the same antenna again on my current boat but its a ketch so no room for whip antenna without hitting mizzen boom.
PM me if you want a good secondhand commercial whip antenna

 

[Ariadne]

Whip, end of thread!

Why weaken your backstay, and why pay as much or more for insulators than a whip aerial?

 

[rustybarge]

This brings back memories. My dad was an amateur ham radio operator, and we used to go down to the west of Ireland every year for the summer. We rigged a dipole ariel form the gutter to the nearest tree, a distance of about 8 meters, and regularly raised stations in the USA, over a distance of 3000 miles.

Iirc the transmitter was a halifaxer 100 watt pep output, impedance matching box, and a simple dipole. We used he 20 meter band the most, with great sucess........so a simple back stay would make a excellent ariel. My dad bought a new fangled fibreglass whip ariel, but with little sucess, we returned to using the simple dipole.

I think the receiver was a post war Ar 88, a superb piece of equipment, made in the 40's and still working 30 years later in the seventies.

Whip antenna 1/10
Dipole wire. 8/10

Ahh for those innocent times.......

 

[Roberto]

I have a random wire antenna made by threading an electric cable in the middle of a 3-strand rope, it literally disappears and is well protected. It is tied on the aft deck, hoisted by a spare halyard.
I also made a couple of dipoles for the most used frequencies, though they are seldom used,
Voice and data connections ok at >8 000 km, I guess that satisfies most uses on a sailboat.

May I suggest you first try with simple setups, before cutting wires or making holes everywhere and turning the inside of the boat upside down...

 

[rustybarge]

I have a random wire antenna made by threading an electric cable in the middle of a 3-strand rope, it literally disappears and is well protected. It is tied on the aft deck, hoisted by a spare halyard.
I also made a couple of dipoles for the most used frequencies, though they are seldom used,
Voice and data connections ok at >8 000 km, I guess that satisfies most uses on a sailboat.

May I suggest you first try with simple setups, before cutting wires or making holes everywhere and turning the inside of the boat upside down...

+1

This is very good advise ......all you need is simple setup to get good results. Power output is more important than the ariel.

 

[Oldhairy]

No need to worry about a weak backstay. They are made up of something that resembles interlocking eye bolts with isolating material separating the two eyes. Should this material collapse (never heard of one) your backstay will finish up about 1/2" longer.

 

[whipper_snapper]

Whip, end of thread!

Why weaken your backstay, and why pay as much or more for insulators than a whip aerial?

Backstay, end of thread!

Why add an extra and very large bit of gubbins that will almost always be a less satisfactory aerial. On most sailing boats the backstay is the perfect antenna. On some, notably cats, it is not practical and a whip is needed.

Insulators do not weaken the backstay.

 

[KellysEye]

A backstay gives a much stronger transmit signal than a whip, also insulators do not weaken the backstay - if they did nobody would use them. This is why when you see SSB aerial installations you will see the very great majority are on the backstaystay and very few whip aerials. I've seen over150 backstay aerials but I only saw 2 whips.

 

[geem]

A backstay gives a much stronger transmit signal than a whip, also insulators do not weaken the backstay - if they did nobody would use them. This is why when you see SSB aerial installations you will see the very great majority are on the backstaystay and very few whip aerials. I've seen over150 backstay aerials but I only saw 2 whips.

High Frequency (HF) whip antennas usually outperform back-stay antennas due to the fact that they are mounted virtually, which is good for long range communications on higher frequencies (above 8MHz) and also helps in reducing ground wave absorption on lower frequencies.
HF whip antennas are usually 5 or 7 metres long and must be mounted correctly on the stern of a boat.
They are usually more cost effective and more reliable and easier to install then an insulated back-stay.
Above is quote straight from reputable website on marine ssb.
We certainly out performed lots of yachts with our whip whilst crossing the Atlantic a few years ago

 

[whipper_snapper]

High Frequency (HF) whip antennas usually outperform back-stay antennas due to the fact that they are mounted virtually, which is good for long range communications on higher frequencies (above 8MHz) and also helps in reducing ground wave absorption on lower frequencies.

eh? And a backstay is horizontal ??????

They are usually more cost effective and more reliable and easier to install then an insulated back-stay.

eh??? How can a whip be easier to mount than a backstay which must be mounted anyway ??! All it requires is a pair of insulators in place of normal connectors.

Sorry but that makes no sense to me at all - and I have an SSB whip which performs well, but I would use a backstay every time if the boat/rig made it possible.


and here is a quote from SGC makers of the 'gold standard' ATUs

Although we would love to sell everyone a high performance marine whip antenna, the
backstay of a sailboat is almost impossible to improve upon in most installations

 

[KellysEye]

>High Frequency (HF) whip antennas usually outperform back-stay antennas due to the fact that they are mounted virtually

I assume you mean vertically. It doesn't have any improved performance over a back stay. Indeed the best aerial setup is a reversed Z shape using a backstay and triatic stay with the bottom line being the hull, which we had.

 

[HoratioHB]

Surprised no one has mentioned that if you lose the mast you lose the backstay antenna so the HF is no good for emergency calls. Mind you cares if you've got an EPIRB!
There is an alternative. We had one of these on my mates Cat for the ARC last year and it was excellent.:

http://www.panbo.com/archives/2005/06/ssb_backstay_antenna_a_new_way.html

 

[geem]

We had superb reception and transmission using a whip. I installed the whole thing just following what it said in the Furuno installation manual. Interestingly, I grounded the whole rig as this is what the furuno manual advised. i guess you can still do this if you use the backstay antenna approach? I will be using the backstay of the main mast as my antenna this time as we now have a ketch.
It looks like there are lots of differing opinions on what is best. I have never used the backstay as an antenna so I cant compare, but I was impressed with the whip as we were speaking to Herb in Toronto when we were 200 miles of the coast of Ireland. I dont need any more performance than that!

 

[Boo2]

As I understand things I have a choice of using the back stay, which is about 20m long, or fitting a whip antenna of about 7m.

Hope no-one minds an idle question, but is there any reason not to use the mast itself as an SSB antenna ?

Boo2

 

[rustybarge]

"It looks like there are lots of differing opinions on what is best. I have never used the backstay as an antenna so I cant compare, but I was impressed with the whip as we were speaking to Herb in Toronto when we were 200 miles of the coast of Ireland. I dont need any more performance than that!"

What sort of power was your transmitter?

 

[Conachair]

I've always thought boats with whip antennas stand out like a sore thumb in anchorages.