Squadron58 Vs Azimut 55

[bigun007]

Hello - i am new here, my nex to boat is going to be one of the above, i went to see both at the boat show in London and think they are both fabulous boats.

I have always been looking for a squadron 58 (I'll be p/x'ing my '00 Sealine F43) but i decided to look at all the alternatives - i am glad i did. The azimut seems such a "Sexy" boat, it feels so much bigger inside than the Squadron but then the squadron feels heavier and slightly better built.

As i am sure you are aware they are of similar prices so i was wondering if anyone had any advice or experiance with either boat?

Thanks in advance

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[tcm]

best wait for input from jfm who has just (this week) taken delivery of a s58, and was originally thinking of az55. Think the better space on top of the s58 flybridge swung him.

Is the az55 a lower galley design - below the saloon? - that wd put me off if skipper+crewing as self/family, tramping up and down to fridges - eyeties assume (at a fairly early stage, 50 foot plus) that you will of course have slaves er crew.

Oh, and also frerreti "Gwylan" which used to be in antibes now in st katherine's dock is still for sale, bout 70 footer. Bet you could have that nice and cheapish. But would have to sell the sealine yerself.

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[Deleted User YDKXO]

tcm is right, jfm should give you the lowdown on these two but he's also right in that the new price of one of these buys you an awful lot of secondhand boat

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[bigun007]

Hey guys,

Thanks for the replys.

THe flybridge on the S58 is definately much better then on the AZ but i think the reaason that the AZ feels bigger is that its more open plan - also the accomodation seemed better looking but maybe less practical on the AZ - also a spiral staircase doesn't seem like a great idea.

The reason that i am after a new boat is that i want it to be customised exactly how "I" want it as there'd always be something that some1 else had and it'd really bug me.

Any other thoughts would be great - thanks again

James.

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[tcm]

well, the seconhand price would be a whole load less. Note that these aren't sold as "customisable" - you chose this fabric or that one , and then sometimes (in jfm's case) they put the wrong stuff in anyway.

Of course, new stuff is nice, i agree.

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[bigun007]

Did they (Fairline) Really put the wrong stuff in the boat?

What ddi they do wrong?

James.

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[Mrtallsheep]

Having just sold our F43 (very happy with it) and gone for a Fairline Phantom 46 the difference is marked. Handling and build quality/finish are another level. Can't comment on the Azimut, however I was not too impressed with the lack of attention to detail on the boat show examples.

The sales team for Azimut were nothing but helpful and interested to know what boat why etc....Peters however............enough said!

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[bigun007]

Did you find fairline were good at the show then?

I found that Azimut and Sunseeker were a class apart with the customer service.

I have to say the only azimut i looked at was the one above so can't really comment on the others.


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[tcm]

New boats - the awful truth

Um, thhis woiuld be your first new boat, yes? It seems so.

If you buy a new boat - from anywhere- you're invited to tick a load of options. It seems just like buying a new car - the new car turns up and (these days) the new car works perfectly.

But if you buy a new boat, it's not like that at all. For a start, it's handmade. I didn't buy a bentley azure cos it was handmade and all the panels didn't quite fit. The outside temperarture guage say 999 degrees and the telephone aeriel at the top of the windscreen looks trendy but whistles above 60mph. The seats are comfy, but obviously "seprate" from the rest of the car, the lecky windows have a little separate set of switches to makem go up and down, and the dashboard is a very nice lump of wood all dials mostly looking the same, apart from some that don't.

Boats are like this, but much worse. It's not the norm or the law in a boat to have much more than a steering wheel, and if its an outboard then it might not hhave that. So all the dials and gauges and instruments are aftermarketable, and have well-known names like raytheon, furuno and so on. You don't see many adverts for the people who supply speedos to BMW frexample, cos they all havem and they aren't an aftermarket thing.

So, with a boat, there's a guarantee, for example, but it's not a guarantee like a car. Frexample, if your VDO sppedo doesn't work in a car - the dealer doesn't say oh yeah - they often break, look here's the manual and there's the guarantee in amongst all the others. It'll probably be best to ring them up! But this is precisely what happens with boats. It's a hull, with bits nailed to it, and you get a guarantee on the hull, and a little manual for each thing nailed/screwed to it.

Furthermore, with boats, especially biggish powerboats with lots of kit on, it would be rare indeed (in fact unheard of) for absolutely everything to work perfectly on delivery to start with, or indeed ever. They will always deliver things a little bit wrong, or busted, or not quite as ordered, and promise to come back, next week, oops well, ok the following week and yes we've done that and ah but now what about this and then there's something new discovered and so on and so on.

Finally - if you really *wanted* to buy a crap new car - I mean you actually wanted to dramatically increase your chances of the brand car being flimsy, badly put together, break down a bit, depreciate quite fast and rust as soon as possible - what two countries of origin would you choose? I bet the UK and Italy would be up there at or pretty near the top of the list eh? Of course they would! By contrast, if you go to say Germany for a short visit like I did, everythying you use and sit in or touch works perfectly, but they only make very basic (yet usually totally-working) boats. ppraps japan is the same, dunno. So, it definitely won't be quite right. But it will be quite sexy-looking like a jag or a ferrari.

My advice would be to buy secondhand - altho i adnmit i have yet to follow this advice, ehem. But the boat you buy is right there in front of you, mostly working with the long long list of faults fixed, and at a price that allows you to customise as you want. It will also be deliverable for this coming season, unlike lots of new boats.

Have fun!


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[Mrtallsheep]

Peters were totally useless and disinterested at the show. On two different days we were at the show, once with my business partner whom I share the boat, and another with the wife. We all commented how there was a lack of interest/motivation of the sales staff. No questions of what boat do have currently, where, when do you hope to change etc. Perhaps it's because they can't make enough and the product sells itself...if it was my concern it needs a damn good shake up. It never pays to be complaisant when you have the likes of Princess Azimut etc all after the same sector of business.

However we can't praise enough the build quality, quality of fittings used, performance and excellent handling etc, but this is a direct result of the design and build quality coming from the factory, certainly not the poor sales and after sales care offered by Peters.

We also bought our boat as a finance snatch back from Lombard but the boat was in the "care" Peters at Chichester. Contact me off line or e-mail if you want the full boring story, but to describe their work as poor would be an understatement.

rob@metrol.com

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[bigun007]

TCM - I have had 2 boats now, a Sealine Statesman420 (2nd hand) and then the F43 which was new and thn hopefully one of these which'll be new as well.

I appreciate what you are saying about 2nd hand boats, but i prefer new ones

MrTallSheep i'd love to hear the story - my address is james@japkits.com

Cheers

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[jfm]

Not that easily duped folks

Hmmm. I have prepared a reply but just as was about to post I thought I heard a penny drop. Or my troll detector bleeped. Just possibly. So, could all the pranksters hereabouts kindly confirm that there's no connexion between Bigun007 and any of you lot. Starting with Learner and going right through the lot of you!

And there was no 55 at the boat show (I think.....)

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[tcm]

Re: oh, another jfm witch hunt

oo, what now i wonder? Anyway, it's not me, whatever it is they are sposed to have done.

Do you think someone is PRETENDING to be interested in a new boat but actually - not really? Some one like erm well, er eveyone else who has ever looked at s58 or az55 but not bort one which might be a squillion peeps....




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[bigun007]

Re: Not that easily duped folks

Hi mate,

I am unsure to what you are referring but i can tell you that i saw Richard Lambert on the Azimut stand at the show and then saw Mike Parkes on the fairline stand.

I assuer you i';m not winding you up.

KIndest Regards

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[bigun007]

Re: Not that easily duped folks

Hi mate,

I am unsure to what you are referring but i can tell you that i saw Richard Lambert on the Azimut stand at the show and then saw Mike Parkes on the fairline stand.

I assure you i'm not winding you up.

Kindest Regards

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[bigun007]

Re: Not that easily duped folks

I Stood on the 55 LMAO, you had the reception and then the boat to your left was the 55.

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[bigun007]

Re: Not that easily duped folks

LMAO - E-mail replied to.

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[jfm]

Oops sorry - long post

Yikes, it turns out that James is indeed a real person, we just emailed offline. So I take it all back, my troll detector has been set to max sensitivity lately and it just tripped a false alarm. Ok, a proper reply james:

Heck, this is my special subject. Yes we just got a new sq58 last week. We spent lots of time weighing up the Azi55, the closest rival imho. So, this is gonna be a long post. Of course, these are both fine boats and any comparison is splitting hairs, and mostly personal choice. So what follows is not intended as any criticism of Azi, it's a great boat. This is just the reasoning behind our choice of Sq58

The flybridge on Sq58 is vastly better. Azi is tiny, feels cheaper, and the helm looks tacky. Part of reason for smallness of Azi fly is 2nd toy storage, but even the space left for seating etc isn't as nice as Sq58. Max people on Azi fly is about 6, if most sit down. On Sq58, 8 people would fit easily and they could move around. Even 10 would be ok. Compare Azi

and Azi helm

with Squadron....

Sq has 5 cabins, of which 4 in the main boat and all carpetted and luxury, then one "lower grade" crew cabin aft. Azi has only 3 1. We wanted the extra cabin

Azi has better owners cabin, seems a good idea, but you only sleep in these cabins so you need to consider there is a big price paid for the fab owners cabin. In all these boats you walk in the saloon and it's level for the saloon part, then 2 steps up in the floor at the point above the aft end of the mid cabins. In the Sq, this step is well forward, so the saloon is big and plenty of space on the settee. In the Azi, to get the massive cabin, this step is much further aft. Result is you get a cramped sofa in the saloon, then a long raised floor section from the step right forward to the helm, and this space is filled with a longer and narrower dining table than the squadron, so the space is kind of wasted imho. Also, the saloon door is pulled aft in the Azi to claw back some room in the saloon, so the outside aft cockpit is smaller, yet the saloon is still small. You should look at this hard, there is a big price paid for that mid cabin! Here's the Azi saloon

and here's the sq58 with much longer sofa

The second toy on flybridge is a big benefit of Azi. We would have like a second toy but got a jet rib as compromise

Dashboard design / aesthetics on Sq are genrally better, imho. Curved glass door on Sq nicer than Azi flat

Bathrooms on Sq at least twice as good as Azi. The Azi looks a bit Jeanneau-ish, less wood and much GRP. The Sq has proper Hansgrohe taps and stuff, plus 2 windows so very light. I didn't have a pic of fairline, but here's Azi 55:

I agree the saloon has a more open plan feel in the Azi and is better in that respect, and the galley is a bit nicer but not much

I love the Azi shark windows. It was them that made me think so hard about it before finally choosing Sq. If Azi did not have the windows and the fantastic exterior look, I would have rejected it immedaitely. With these windows, the Azi looks the sexier boat. The Sq58 looks ok imho, less conservative than say a princess, but the Azi is the better looker

So, a totally rambling post that proves nothing other than this is all personal preference. I repeat, I'm only splitting hairs and the Azi is a great boat. Good luck, and make sure to let us know what you decide!



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[bigun007]

Re: Oops sorry - long post

Hi mate,

Thank you for the reply.

I agree with you about the flybridge on the azimut, the thing that helps to counter this is that where the second tender might sit they can put mre seating, altho it may be a little out the way it'd help.

That picture of the Azi cockpit wasn't how i remembered it, but then i guess the one i saw was a high spec one like the SQ you posted pics of.

This is how i remember the cockpit looking

I know what you are saying about the windows and the fact that they open and close electrically also made me like it a lot.

The Laundry room on the SQ was a nice touch.

The steering wheel on the AZ flybridge is HORRID as well.

I LOVED the moody blue lights that are positioned around the SQ as well.

I don;t know if you saw the Sq58 at the show but the inside was very dark, navy if i remember so this may have been the reason it felt smaller.

The cabin pic above makes it look a lot bigger.

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[bigun007]

Re: Oops sorry - long post

Here is the pic you tried to post

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