Sports (open) boats, old hat?

[matm]

Got into an interesting debate with SWMBO last night about sports/open boats i.e. those lots of canvas vs hardtops. We like many others have an open boat and canvas fiddling aside, I don't find it an issue.

However, we're looking at the market at the moment and looking at sports and hard top boats. Talking in the range 38-44ft.

Conversation we had was that whether or not given the way the market is moving (has moved) towards hard tops, whether buying a sports boat now would be a prudent move. We'd be in a 2010 sports boat vs a 2008 hardtop. For me age is key however as there are more and more HTs around, wondering about future saleability - would plan to keep it 2-3 years before moving on.

Anybody got any views either way? un-important, critical ?

 

[rafiki_]

The Euro boat builders seem to be going hardtop in this size, although some give an option, Fairline, Bavaria. Sealine and Prinny seem to have gone the hardtop only route in the 35-45 ft bracket for their new boats. Jeannau/Ben also seem to have gone this way too.

Seems to make sense in the UK/North Eu market, although I guess there will always be a market on the Med for an open boat. Different in the States, where I think there is still a good market for the Sports Boat.

 

[volvopaul]

Same debate in our dept, I'm still tempted with the hard top sports if I ever manage to sell the boat or part ex. I know of a princes v45 if interested, though for a few more£££ I'd go for a targa 47 on shafts and you can say goodbye to the extra service costs of drives and repairs like exhaust risers and steering rams.

 

[rubberduck]

I looked at both a couple of years ago & took both for a run. Soft Top a bit of fiddling but not too bad once covers are "worn in". Advantage is that in nice weather you can have shade above you but a nice open, wind in your face boat.
With a hardtop its obviously easier, but when cold / rainy, you are not much better off due to the fact that you still have a canvas back door. In nice weather all you can do is open the sunroof & fry your head, which seems to me not the idea. I went open & the resale market for my boat would be the med, if I ever sell which is getting less likely by the day. We like our boat Edit: I think the electric soft top will one day win, with say the whole lot folding forward into a compartment above the saloon in front of the screen ? (I have a design idea if anyone wants it )

 

[Illusion]

We moved from our flybridge (Phantom 40) to a hardtop sports boat (Targa 44) in 2010 and can honestly say we've not looked back. The hard top we feel just gives you the best of both worlds for all year round UK boating (presume you're UK based?).
We've loved our Targa 44 in the 3 seasons we've had her and to be honest I think there are some good sub £300k deals to be had. Just been thinking about the value of ours?
We'll be sticking with a hard top sportsboat, but we hope to move up in size for next season.

Go for it you won't regret it.

Regards

Phil

 

[Quest]

We went for a Prestige 34 with hard top and love it. Would go for a retractable soft top such as the SC35, but certainly not an open Sports Boat for the uk. I can't really imagine 20knots mid winter (or Spring or autumn for that matter) with wind and rain in the face - Cold with a capital C!

I am surprised that there is much of a market for open top Sports Boats in the uk climate.

 

[MapisM]

Once you reach the 40' mark, the HT definitely makes much more sense.
Even more so if it has a fully enclosed saloon, separated with a door from the cockpit.
And while you are at that, imho you could as well get one with a helm station on top, and enjoy a proper boat, eventually...
You know it makes sense: the "sporty" part of the equation can't be much relevant anyway, because if you're talking of canvas and HT, it means that you're not really looking for sheer performance.
Real fast boats have neither an HT nor a radar arch and canvas covers.

 

[gjgm]

We ponder this one too, but every single h/t s/t we see at anchor, everyone is 90pct in shadow. I sort of think it is a bit like an open sportscar or an estate with a sliding hole cut in the roof
Ok, we dont boat in winter, as after 8 months of boating we have backlog of others things in life to get on with.
I think when the boat gets big enough, they do seem to get a bit more open, but so often there is an overhang of the roof structure that puts that back end into shadow. I noticed Princess new 39 hand a canvas overhang, so maybe that is removable?
So we conclude that until we get to an age that we worry flu might kill us off, we will stick to the open boats and put on a fleece or jacket

 

[jrudge]

We have a targa 40 med based. We have pondered this as well. For us canvas wins as it is just a Bimini and the full covers rarely go on for the uk .... Follow the market and get a hard top

 

[CobraYellowfin]

This may be a strange idea...
But has anyone considered a 'removable' hard top
I know some manufacturers are starting to provide some slidable soft tops
If it can be done for cars (as it has for decades) can it not be done for boats?

I love the rather impractible 80's open boats like Rob's Sunseeker Rapello 36 but with our British weather I think some protection is necessary


Andy

 

[PowerYachtBlog]

This may be a strange idea...
But has anyone considered a 'removable' hard top
I know some manufacturers are starting to provide some slidable soft tops
If it can be done for cars (as it has for decades) can it not be done for boats?

I love the rather impractible 80's open boats like Rob's Sunseeker Rapello 36 but with our British weather I think some protection is necessary


Andy

Baia from Naples Italy offered this solution of a removable hard-top in the 1997 launched 48 Flash.
This option was also later offered in the 74 Magnifica, 63 Azzura later on, and 54 Aqua.
In 2004 Baia offered a fixed hard-top choice to all the above mentioned models.

Anyhow the look of the hard-top of the 48 Flash, Azzura and Aqua was also later on followed in looks a lot by the second generation Princess V series like the 46, 48, and 58 models.
I also liked the Baia hardtop for it created a very open feel compared to other solutions, thanks to the side removable glasses.

Doing picture links is a pain here but if you type Baia 48 Flash in Google you can see a lot of examples with or without hard-top.

 

[Switch]

If I may paraphrase Jack Haines when he tested/compared the Fairline Targa 44GT (hardtop) and the Targa 44 (Open)

"I thought life was too short to be fiddling around with covers, perhaps its too short to be stuck under a plastic lid"

 

[matm]

Some interesting thoughts here. I'm a kind of "wind in your hair" guy and the thrashing around in the inevitable cold with the front cover off is all part of the experience for me - it's for what warming up in the pub afterwards is for! But let's face it, the UK weather is just pants so HTs do have a big plus.

Then, in amongst all this started looking at FBs. Most of the time I see people helm from the FB regardless of the weather so isn't this even worse than an "open" boat ? (Refraining from using "sports" given MapisM's rather valid point...)

Really in a quandry here as there are also a couple of HT variants e.g. the Beneteau Flyer with patio doors and the Targas variety with Canvas at the back. For me the Beneteau looks a bit odd.

Guess I'll carry on browsing!


EDIT: just a thought - my terminology of open is Targa style i.e. top bimini, rear and front canvas, not Hunton style - one canvas and totally open.

 

[jimmy_the_builder]

We have a targa 40 med based. We have pondered this as well. For us canvas wins as it is just a Bimini and the full covers rarely go on for the uk .... Follow the market and get a hard top

+1 to all of that. The covers on the T40 are a bit of a nuisance in the UK, because inevitably you put everything back on at the end of each visit to the boat. This season in France I took all the covers off except the top at the beginning of June, and didn't put them back on the boat until end of September. For the Med, the open sports boat with the bimini top but no side covers is the better choice imho. Hardtop much more suitable for UK boating.

Cheers
Jimmy

 

[Portofino]

We have ponded - re hard top/ soft top issue too, circa 40 ft +
Being Med based weather is not the issue ,more like shade and keeping cool.
However I would to qualify this previous sailing experiance - no HT,s on yachts.
Ok they go slower ,but I like the outdoorsy world open ,wind in your hair etc.
HTs do seem to be fashionable with fair -prin - seeker + sealine at the mo .
Are they meeting customer demand/ expectations - ??
I know SS have made Portofino 53's in soft top and P 47 .+ some 60 ft preditors
New P 40 has a canvas affair which to be honest seems to open right up and with a low ish windscreen . I imagine one can still get the wind in air open feel?
Real muscle boats are all open think ITAMA,40 DONZI ZR 43' MAGNUM40 and our own UK builder HUNTON XRS 43
I.ll be happy with any one of these circa 40 ft ish ,pure speed ,grace, pace ,and style
Eat my rooster tail etc .- but not in the UK.

Sometimes at Easter one can see snow on the Alps and at 35 knots my head can get cold if i pop it above the sceen so I just put/ tie on a cap .
If we are in a real " headsea " we zip on the front screen to keep dry , buts it's hardly a chore.
Just seen JTB ,s post - all we have had on all season is the bimini ,never used the full set ,plan on going out next week last visit this Y

 

[MapisM]

Then, in amongst all this started looking at FBs. Most of the time I see people helm from the FB regardless of the weather so isn't this even worse than an "open" boat ? (Refraining from using "sports" given MapisM's rather valid point...)

That's because many FBs have a poor visibility from the lower helm station, either because badly designed or because the boat has a tendency to cruise with the bow pointing to the sky.
Besides, many FB owners, once spoiled by the superior visibility of the upper helm (which is obviously even better than any open boat), tend to feel more confident when helming from there, and avoid to go down no matter how bad the weather.
But there are indeed FBs with a decent lower helm station, and that gives you a choice which no open boat on earth can offer.
When choosing a FB, cruising and maneuvering from the lower helm is one of the most critical things to check.
If all boaters would do that, more than half of the builders around would not sell a thing.

 

[Deleted User YDKXO]

When choosing a FB, cruising and maneuvering from the lower helm is one of the most critical things to check.

Absolutely right. When I visit boat shows and see other boats, I am often shocked by how poor the visibility is from the lower helm due simply to bad ergonomic design. I was on an Elegance recently and you could not see out of the side windows when seated at the lower helm seat because the side windows were too narrow and too high. You had to stand at the lower helm to look out to either side which is really stupid.
Going back to the OP's original point about hardtops v soft tops, I find hardtop sports cruisers in the Med to be really stuffy in the heat. You don't want to open the sunroof because you are exposed to the sun and then the inside of the hardtop becomes like a greenhouse. It also stops the breeze from flowing into the cockpit when you are at anchor. We were anchored next to a hardtop sportscruiser in Croatia in August this year for a couple of days and the crew spent the whole 2 days huddled under a garden umbrella on the foredeck trying to stay out of the sun but trying to catch some breeze. I felt so sorry for them that I almost invited them to sit on my boat on the flybridge under the bimini where they could cool off. But then I thought better of it as the owner should really learn to buy a boat more with practicalities in mind than making a fashion statement

 

[jfm]

When choosing a FB, cruising and maneuvering from the lower helm is one of the most critical things to check.

Agreed. Though of course there are so many compromises you have to make when buying a boat and this is just one of them. Anyway, for a Tuesday chuckle here is Exhibit 1 from illustrious builder Uniesse no less

 

[Deleted User YDKXO]

Agreed. Though of course there are so many compromises you have to make when buying a boat and this is just one of them. Anyway, for a Tuesday chuckle here is Exhibit 1 from illustrious builder Uniesse no less

That is unbelievable. The designer or ergonomist or whatever they call them these days should be strapped to the helm seat and made to drive the boat across a busy shipping lane like the E Channel. Its that kind of 'compromise' that would put me off a boat completely because it makes me wonder if they could f*** up such a fundamental element of the design, what else could they have got wrong

 

[AdeOlly]

We're now on our second HT and there's no way I'd go back to an open boat in the UK. I do like the wind in my face, so being able to stick my head out the roof is a pre-requisite, and also to be able to open up the cockpit on the three days per year when it is hot and sunny.

Whilst I have little experience of Med boating, I'd have thought an open boat with a bimini would be preferable to avoid the situation Deleted User detailed.