Splicing 3 strand rope in V or Y shape

[srah1953]

I want to attach a bridle to the eye on a chain hook with 3 strand rope either in a V shape or a Y shape but I don't know what kind of splice to do. I know how to do an eye splice and also a short splice (where two ends of a rope are joined together). But in this case the ropes are joined in the same direction (and my book of words doesn't cover this). I can't do two eye splices because both ropes won't fit in the eye of the chain hook. Any suggestions as to how they can be joined together?
I could put a shackle through the eye of the chain hook and this would probably give me enough room to splice two eye splices to the shackle (either with or without thimbles) but it sounds very "agricultural" and the shackle is just a source of weakness.
Thanks

 

[lw395]

What's wrong with thinking of it as splicing a big eye, then cutting the eye in half?
Basically splice in the second leg like an eye splice.

Only difference is, one leg of the Y might be completely unloaded. So I'd be wanting extra tucks and some serious whipping?
Even with the leg unloaded, I don't see why it would be weaker than a short splice?

 

[srah1953]

What's wrong with thinking of it as splicing a big eye, then cutting the eye in half?
Basically splice in the second leg like an eye splice

You'll have to explain. I don't understand what you are proposing.
I could splice one "big" eye to the hook and splice an eye on the second rope through the eye of the first splice.

 

[dunedin]

What's wrong with thinking of it as splicing a big eye, then cutting the eye in half?
Basically splice in the second leg like an eye splice.

Only difference is, one leg of the Y might be completely unloaded. So I'd be wanting extra tucks and some serious whipping?
Even with the leg unloaded, I don't see why it would be weaker than a short splice?

That’s effectively what we have used on our last two boats, for 5 or so years in each case, and worked well. Ours is Y shaped.

To try to describe for the OP, we have one longer rope which is spliced onto the chain hook using a conventional eye splice.

Get a shorter rope for the other side of the Y. This is laid over the first rope where the join is wanted, and spliced (in exactly the same way you would with an eye splice) with the tucks in the side going to the bow and chain hook.

Out of preference we have added, from the chain hook backwards
- rubber snubber for extra give
- plastic hose for anti chafe
- eye splice in the end of the longer rope so can just loop over the cleat.
We do NOT have eye splices on both ends, as need to be able to adjust and remove one side of Y under tension

 

[Refueler]

Personally ..... take a single length .... pass it through the chain hook eye till hook is at the halfway point.

Close the two lengths of rope together to form the eye and then using good waxed sailmakers twine - whip the two together permanently. Making sure that you 'sew' through the ropes in the finishing similar to sailmakers whipping.

To give an extra bit of strength to the whipped joint. You can use palm and needle to actually sew it together before applying the whipping over top. So you not only have a strong joint - but cosmetic as well. Done nicely - that'll show the Marina boys !!

You could if you wanted to be fancy create a braided joint instead - but that's old seamans ways rarely seen now.

I have in the past for a number of bridles, with patience and taking slow - because it does hurt the thumbs after a while ! Take the ropes as passed through .. tie them together with twine .... then unlay each rope end nearly back to the twine. You then splice the two ropes into each other for 2 passes. Then twist and relay each rope. This is hard on the hands and needs good quality laid rope. Hard on the hands because the rope relies on the hard twist and strands together to maintain its form. If you are slack in the twist - the rope will not reform properly.

Seriously though ... my suggestion to whip together is the easiest out of what I posted here.

 

[neil_s]

Don't use a splice at all. Pass the rope through the chain hook eye and use a figure of eight seizing to join the rope together. They are very strong - I use one to create the eye at the end of my main haliard. Seizings were used in past times to form the eye in the end of hemp shrouds.

 

[Refueler]

Don't use a splice at all. Pass the rope through the chain hook eye and use a figure of eight seizing to join the rope together. They are very strong - I use one to create the eye at the end of my main haliard. Seizings were used in past times to form the eye in the end of hemp shrouds.

We made pilot ladders with seizing .... till some twit decided that it was unsafe !! Rather climb a properly seamans made ladder than some of the crap seen from factorys !!

What you describe though is a variation on what I suggested ...... I thought being a 'yacht' he'd want the nicer looking sailmakers instead of black seizing !!

 

[VicS]

What's wrong with thinking of it as splicing a big eye, then cutting the eye in half?
Basically splice in the second leg like an eye splice.

Exactly how I have done it.

But perhaps we misunderstand what Srah is asking

 

[VicS]

 

[srah1953]

To try to describe for the OP, we have one longer rope which is spliced onto the chain hook using a conventional eye splice.

Get a shorter rope for the other side of the Y. This is laid over the first rope where the join is wanted, and spliced (in exactly the same way you would with an eye splice) with the tucks in the side going to the bow and chain hook.

Thank you all for your helpful replies.
I think that some kind of seizing seems both the simplest and perfectly functional - although I don't know what a figure of eight seizing is.
Also, I've quoted the bit above because I'm still unclear on what is proposed and I'm curious. If I "lay the second rope over the first rope where the join is wanted" and splice it in, the tucks can't be "going to the bow and chain hook" - they surely must go in one or the other direction - no?
PS I've now seen VIcS's photos (for which many thanks) and they answer the question that it must be going in one direction only.

 

[RJJ]

For me, choice 1 is what you describe as agricultural. The shackle is only a point of weakness if you under-size it. Then you have the benefit of two entirely independent snubbers. If one of your splices fails, you still have the other, and you're only replacing (say) 10m of rope not 20. And you then have two stout 10m ropes to multitask with, say if you wanted to extend your anchor rode, use as part of a longline ashore or for towing.

Another elegant solution is a brummel lock. Pass the mid-point of the rope through the shackle, or directly around the hook (I would always use a thimble). Pass rope a through rope b, then rope B through rope A. Do it a couple of times then seize it well.

 

[srah1953]

1) For me, choice 1 is what you describe as agricultural. The shackle is only a point of weakness if you under-size it. Then you have the benefit of two entirely independent snubbers. If one of your splices fails, you still have the other, and you're only replacing (say) 10m of rope not 20. And you then have two stout 10m ropes to multitask with, say if you wanted to extend your anchor rode, use as part of a longline ashore or for towing.

2) Another elegant solution is a brummel lock. Pass the mid-point of the rope through the shackle, or directly around the hook (I would always use a thimble). Pass rope a through rope b, then rope B through rope A. Do it a couple of times then seize it well.

Re 1) yes you could be right.
Re 2) can you do a bummel lock with 3 strand? I always think of it in terms of hollow braid.

 

[RJJ]

Re 1) yes you could be right.
Re 2) can you do a bummel lock with 3 strand? I always think of it in terms of hollow braid.

I have seen it done. Looks good.

 

[Refueler]

The only problem with passing a full rope through the lay of the other part of rope - is you open up the lay to a large amount. Rope relies on friction and in respect of stranded ... 3 .. 4 ... cable laid etc. - on the twist as well. This effectively slightly weakens the rope.

I don't know what a figure of eight seizing is.

Its not so important .... main fact is to make sure the seizing is tight whether you fig 8 or just plain wind round. It has to be drawn tight each round causing the two ropes to create friction hold. The seizing providing the hold to make ropes grip each other.

As you see here .... once the number of turns have been made - the seizing then is 'passed' round through between the ropes
at least 2x to increase the tightness of the wind and lock it together.

Now if that is good enough to have people climb sides of ships .... ??

 

[srah1953]

.... main fact is to make sure the seizing is tight whether you fig 8 or just plain wind round. It has to be drawn tight each round causing the two ropes to create friction hold. The seizing providing the hold to make ropes grip each other.

Now if that is good enough to have people climb sides of ships .... ??

Thanks
There is a video by the Rigging Doctor who put synthetic rigging on his boat. I couldn't believe it when I saw it - the rigging was held by tight seizing, with not one single knot, not even a half hitch....

 

[Refueler]

Thanks
There is a video by the Rigging Doctor who put synthetic rigging on his boat. I couldn't believe it when I saw it - the rigging was held by tight seizing, with not one single knot, not even a half hitch....

Like I say ... peoples lives 'hang' on such ....

Old Seamans ways like these have stood test of time.