Splices...how hard is this going to be?

[ghostlymoron]

...so, anybody know how to splice braid-on-braid onto chain? And, anybody know why my Photobucket links aren't working today? :hopeless:

You could use a soft eye but it would be vulnerable to chafe. Better use a thimble eye. Still not ideal with braid.

 

[cliff]

http://www.samsonrope.com/Documents/Splice Instructions/DblBrd_C2_End_for_End_WEB.pdf
All from this web site :- http://www.samsonrope.com/Pages/SpliceInstructions.aspx

That is the one I have used except I milked the cover back over the crossover by about 2", cut it off and whipped it in place then milked the other cover back over the first one again to about 2" past the cross over meaning around 4" was "double covered". the second end was whipped in place and the splice through stitched. The finished article was smooth and flexible - runs round the main winch nicely. Because the cores are buried in each other the splice is remarkably strong.

 

[Spirit of Glenans]

Some phrase about ships and ha'porths of tar is trying to surface from my subconscious

 

[knuterikt]

http://www.samsonrope.com/Documents/Splice Instructions/DblBrd_C2_End_for_End_WEB.pdf
All from this web site :- http://www.samsonrope.com/Pages/SpliceInstructions.aspx

That is the one I have used except I milked the cover back over the crossover by about 2", cut it off and whipped it in place then milked the other cover back over the first one again to about 2" past the cross over meaning around 4" was "double covered". the second end was whipped in place and the splice through stitched. The finished article was smooth and flexible - runs round the main winch nicely. Because the cores are buried in each other the splice is remarkably strong.

The one you used is for Dyneema core or other core dependent ropes. A core dependent rope (Class II) is a rope where the cover does not give strength to the rope but is there to add protection and thickness to the rope.
http://www.samsonrope.com/Documents/Splice Instructions/DblBrd_C2_End_for_End_WEB.pdf

The proper splice to maintain strength in double braid is this
http://www.samsonrope.com/Documents/Splice Instructions/DblBrd_C1_End_for_End_WEB.pdf

The one in the video is used for endless furling lines, endless sheets and control lines where reduction in strength is acceptable
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vGtJh4lEE90

 

[Greenheart]

Some phrase about ships and ha'porths of tar is trying to surface from my subconscious

Hmm. Well, a glance at the table of breaking-strains shows my 12mm and 14mm braided lines will bear between three and four tonnes...not very probable, when holding a dinghy.

 

[lw395]

For the amount of anchoring you're likely to do, just buy a good length of 12mm lorry rope and tie it to the chain.
Use a weight to stop it floating.

 

[AntarcticPilot]

A good splice in new material will probably reduce the strength of the rope by at least 50%. This may be acceptable for the projected use (anchoring a dinghy), but in general is bad practice for an anchor warp.

PRV makes the very good point that it is very difficult to splice old braid-on-braid rope; it can be impossible. The point has also been made that you're depending entirely on the outer sheath of the rope; of course, this is the part that is most worn and affected by UV on older rope.

Under the circumstances, I'd suggest using either a carrick bend or a sheet bend with the ends seized back to the standing parts. Carrick bend is stronger but more bulky (note that the elegant criss-cross pattern you use to tie it should be allowed to deform to it's final shape before seizing the ends, tie the knot and put a strain on it before seizing); in this instance there might be some merit in doubling the sheet-bend. In the sheet-bend, The thicker rope should be the one that describes a U shape, and the thinner one the one that goes up the hole and round the tree! Note that the knot won't go round a winch, but I presume that's not an issue.

The knots will still lose some strength, but less than the splice would, and will be more secure and stronger than the braid-on-braid splice.

 

[knuterikt]

A good splice in new material will probably reduce the strength of the rope by at least 50%. This may be acceptable for the projected use (anchoring a dinghy), but in general is bad practice for an anchor warp.

Strange
http://www.marlowropes.com/splicing-home-page.html

Splices: Most Marlow ropes can be spliced, this is normally the preferred method of termination. A good splice using the recommended method should not reduce the strength of a rope by more than 10%.
Knots: A knot will reduce the strength of the rope, sometimes very significantly. This loss is caused by the tight bends and compression found in any knot. The amount a rope will be weakened will depend on the knot, type of rope and the material from which it is made but can be up to 60%

PRV makes the very good point that it is very difficult to splice old braid-on-braid rope; it can be impossible.

It can be hard - depends on the rope

The point has also been made that you're depending entirely on the outer sheath of the rope; of course, this is the part that is most worn and affected by UV on older rope.

If you use the wrong splice you depend on the cover only.
Use the proper splice and this is not the case.

The knots will still lose some strength, but less than the splice would, and will be more secure and stronger than the braid-on-braid splice.

Wrong

 

[charles_reed]

Strange
http://www.marlowropes.com/splicing-home-page.html



It can be hard - depends on the rope


If you use the wrong splice you depend on the cover only.
Use the proper splice and this is not the case.


Wrong

Thanks for descending from Olympus and giving us the benefit of your opinion.

Note that Marlow use the term "most", which might include the ropes the OP is trying to splice.

Having just attempted to splice some 20mm anchorplait onto 8mm short link chain, I would suggest it's impossible in most cases to splice used rope.

A valid point about uv degradation;

Now here's the challenge for your godhead - explain how the OP should do his end-to-end splice of two different size braid on braid.

PS looking at the alias, I should perhaps have mentioned Valhalla rather than Olympus. ;-)

 

[knuterikt]

Thanks for descending from Olympus and giving us the benefit of your opinion.

Sorry to offend you

Note that Marlow use the term "most", which might include the ropes the OP is trying to splice.

The OP wrote

When I found 7 meters each of hardly-used 12mm and 14mm braid-on-braid in my cupboard, I decided I'd rather save the money and time, and make use of it.

Braid on braid is normally easy to splice, the difference in 12mm and 14mm make it possible but you don't know before you try.
I have spliced used braid-on-braid (it works sometimes and sometimes not)
The correct splice for this task is not the one in the video but the one (as written previously) http://www.samsonrope.com/Documents/Splice Instructions/DblBrd_C1_End_for_End_WEB.pdf

Having just attempted to splice some 20mm anchorplait onto 8mm short link chain, I would suggest it's impossible in most cases to splice used rope.

Sorry to hear that.

A valid point about uv degradation;

No, as it was related to using the wrong splice (a splice that 1/ depends on the cover 2/is designed for another task)

Now here's the challenge for your godhead - explain how the OP should do his end-to-end splice of two different size braid on braid.

I already explained the splice to use, and also wrote that it can be difficult.

The other option is this (but we are still talking about used rope - there is used rope and there is used rope...)

I would not sleep well on two lengths of braid spliced together in the way you suggest.
Two eye splices, one fed through the other in the form of a reef knot, that's a different matter!

PS looking at the alias, I should perhaps have mentioned Valhalla rather than Olympus. ;-)

 

[estarzinger]

mmmmmm . . . . no-one has yet mentioned the 'proper' way to accomplish the OP's original (difficult) task. You completely unbraid both lines (for the length of the intended splice, group the fibers into three or four bundles and then braid them back together in a 3 or 4 strand end to end braid/splice. If done very neatly this is full strength, is minimum extra diameter (very smooth if tapered at both ends), and can be done with old line with no special tools. But you have to be very neat, and evenly tension all the strands.

 

[Greenheart]

That...is what I was wondering about. I doubt I have the time, patience or skill to accomplish it, but I'd like to see a video or plan of how it is done.

 

[estarzinger]

That...is what I was wondering about. I doubt I have the time, patience or skill to accomplish it, but I'd like to see a video or plan of how it is done.

I learned to do it from Chilean fishermen, but I believe I have seen instructions two places: Brion Toss has instructions in one of his splicing books, and probably in one of his dvd's, but I don't think he is big on internet videos, and I believe (but am not 100% sure) somewhere on Samson's website there was a video of doing this with very big line (like 100mm line). In theory it is not very hard at all. Any little girl who braids hair could probably figure out/tell you how to do it, but to get the strength you have to be very neat and careful.

 

[charles_reed]

That...is what I was wondering about. I doubt I have the time, patience or skill to accomplish it, but I'd like to see a video or plan of how it is done.

Apart from normal human impatience, I think you might come unstuck on the variation in diameters.
As you can see we all have our splicing challenges!!

 

[estarzinger]

Apart from normal human impatience, I think you might come unstuck on the variation in diameters.

The variation in diameters is actually not a problem at all with the 'unbraid and rebraid' solution.

 

[Storyline]

I learned to do it from Chilean fishermen.....

cool answer

 

[Woodlouse]

mmmmmm . . . . no-one has yet mentioned the 'proper' way to accomplish the OP's original (difficult) task. You completely unbraid both lines (for the length of the intended splice, group the fibers into three or four bundles and then braid them back together in a 3 or 4 strand end to end braid/splice. If done very neatly this is full strength, is minimum extra diameter (very smooth if tapered at both ends), and can be done with old line with no special tools. But you have to be very neat, and evenly tension all the strands.

I had to unpick one of those once. The time it took me just to do that was enough to for me to know that the only way to do such a splice was to pay someone else.