Spain now requires mandatory competency tickets for foreign yachts.

[Tranona]

Somewhat patronising, don't you think?
Why would a Spanish plod be any more lazy/ignorant that a British plod?
The fact that no-one on here (visiting Spain since the new law came into force) has been asked for any qualifications seems to indicate that the Guardia Civil seems to be well aware of the current legislation and its implications for foreign skippers/yachts.

You clearly have not experienced such problems. Like all stereotypes it is founded in experience and people who regularly sail in such countries adopt the strategy I suggest. Perhaps if you're up to date for example on the recent difficulties with officialdom in Portugal, Spain, Croatia and Greece in relation to the implementation of new rules you would understand much better. All regularly reported on by the RYA And CA for example, so not made up or patronising. Just common sense.

 

[GrahamM376]

Although you have read it in this way, and it seems to make sense, this is not necessarily how a local official will read it. He may have been half asleep at the briefing on new legislation and only heard that licenses were required now. He would then look at the long confusing list and decide to make his life easier by asking every one he stops for their licence.

So having an ICC and following the Baggywrinkle approach will ensure you have no problems

+1

Problem is that foreign officials are so used to everyone having a bit of paper, they don't believe we don't need one. Definitely pushing one's luck not to have an ICC.

 

[duncan99210]

All you need to get an ICC is a Day Skipper ticket and £25 (for a five year ICC, so £5 a year), so the easy answer is to get one. Equally, there is an argument that says because there is no requirement under UK law to register a leisure vessel, you don't need any registration papers either. I don't think that would work out too well, as just about all the places I've been into need to see your registration papers, insurance documents and passports. Again, simple to get on the SSR at £5 a year.
All that said, in nearly six years cruising we've never been asked for our ICC by anybody. Nor have we been asked to show our radio licence or operators certificates. Nor have we been asked to prove our VAT status by means of the fairly extensive paper trail on the boat. But they're there if someone needs to see them.

 

[sailaboutvic]

We have sailed in almost every European country has well has a few other in Northern Africa , so far I have never been asked to show my YM which I always carry but there always a first time , it so easy to fall into the trap of thinking because your British and sail a British yacht that only British laws apply to you ,( I have use this to my advantage in the pass and it not always worked ) which has most of us who have had runnings with official know well , that's not the case , best always to keep All documents in order if your sailing in other country's it might just safe you from being stuck in an hot office for hours on end or at worst being refused to leave harbour .
A smile and a joke also help , just don't joke about there football team ,

 

[BrianH]

Based in the Italian Adriatic I have sailed to Croatia (and earlier to the former Yugoslavia) for many years. In Istria, where I normally enter, they have always demanded a certificate of competence, along with registration and insurance. I know of someone of whom a VHF SRC was also asked, which he didn't have but had to make reservation for a course and test at €200.

Many years ago while clearing in Umag, I witnessed a British skipper trying to enter and arguing exactly as above - about not needing anything due to his country's rules - to no avail. The truth is that any country can impose such requirements for vessels in its waters, other than passage-making without stopping.

 

[Lakesailor]

What's a text link? Do you mean replace the url description so http://www.boe.es/boe/dias/2014/10/11/pdfs/BOE-A-2014-10344.pdf instead of http://www.boe.es/boe/dias/2014/10/11/pdfs/BOE-A-2014-10344.pdf. Sorry if I'm being thick.

You have demonstrated the problem. The text link goes nowhere.

If it were enabled like this would be a clickable link that works.

 

[Mark-1]

What I take away from this is:
- If you are a British passport holder sailing a British registered yacht, you only need to comply with UK regs regarding qualifications.
- Since there are NO UK requirements regarding qualifications, you don't NEED anything.

Forum storm in a teacup.

+1

 

[sailaboutvic]

+1

I think some people are looking at this the wrong way , every country has it own law no matter where you come from or where you boat is reg , just because you don't need a driving licences in Timbuktu it doesn't mean you can drive a car in the UK .
You also can't use a boat the rivers and canels of France without and ICC endorsed for inland waters

 

[sailorman]

I think some people are looking at this the wrong way , every country has it own law no matter where you come from or where you boat is reg , just because you don't need a driving licences in Timbuktu it doesn't mean you can drive a car in the UK .
You also can't use a boat the rivers and canels of France without and ICC endorsed for inland waters

1/ the boat is UK registered & part of England unlike yoyr car
2/ anybody can hire a boat in France with NO ICC

 

[Davegriff]

Talking recently with a friend who works for the EU, Maritime division, I attempted to obtain his take on the matter of certificates in various European countries. My conclusions were -

1) He seemed a little surprised that we needed no official qualifications in the UK.
2) He seemed reluctant to say emphatically whether qualifications were or were not neccessary anywhere.
3) He kept saying that the EU were 'trying' to hand any such regulations over to the individual ports.

Not much help, but if the EU officials don't know the rules....

 

[Mariner69]

1/ the boat is UK registered & part of England unlike yoyr car
2/ anybody can hire a boat in France with NO ICC

Sorry, but to enter pedant mode. A merchant vessel is registered in a country but is not part thereof. A warship is part of the country and as such requires things like diplomatic clearance to enter a foreign port. It is possible, in theory, for a person to attempt to claim asylum when picked up at sea by a warship but it cannot be done if the rescuer is a merchant vessel.

Best summed up...... when in Rome do as ..........

 

[Tranona]

1/ the boat is UK registered & part of England unlike yoyr car
2/ anybody can hire a boat in France with NO ICC

More misinformation. The only boats you can hire in France without a licence are on the Canal Du Midi. This is because the hire companies, mostly British are required to conduct an assessment. Logical really as they bring in a lot of income into an economically depressed area.

Any other type of boat hire both power and sail will require an appropriate licence equivalent to the French requirement. So if you want to hire a motorboat you will need a Powerboat ICC.

 

[sailaboutvic]

1/ the boat is UK registered & part of England unlike yoyr car
2/ anybody can hire a boat in France with NO ICC

Your signature says" I may be wrong but not alway " you are this time my friend , to use a boat in the France rivers or canel you need at less a ICC , if you don't have one and your asked for it or you have an accident you have a problem , not ever sure if insurance would cover you .
It also as to be endorsed for inland waters

 

[Tranona]

Your signature says" I may be wrong but not alway " you are this time my friend , to use a boat in the France rivers or canel you need at less a ICC , if you don't have one and your asked for it or you have an accident you have a problem , not ever sure if insurance would cover you .
It also as to be endorsed for inland waters

That is only partly true and is oly in the CENI waterways and not all French waterways are in the CEVNI scheme. See my post above.

 

[Mark-1]

Your signature says" I may be wrong but not alway " you are this time my friend , to use a boat in the France rivers or canel you need at less a ICC , if you don't have one and your asked for it or you have an accident you have a problem , not ever sure if insurance would cover you .
It also as to be endorsed for inland waters

No, he's correct. No need for an ICC (CEVNI really) to hire locally on inland waters. Obvious why, the inland hire business wouldn't survive without the exemption.

 

[sailaboutvic]

I was talking about useing the French water ways not hire ,just found this maybe it will clear it up

" Skippers of British Registered boats – motor or sail – do not require an International Certificate of Competence (ICC) when sailing in French coastal waters (unless you charter or use a French registered boat). However, if as a visitor (not defined) you are planning to use the French canals and rivers, the boat’s skipper must have an ICC certificate endorsed for Inland Waters (having passed the CEVNI exam). Paradoxically, hire boat skippers (i.e the most inexperienced) need no qualifications at all (merely some very limited tuition) and this is another reason why hire boats should be treated with caution by more seasoned boaters, especially those piloting their own craft."

 

[Tranona]

No, he's correct. No need for an ICC (CEVNI really) to hire locally on inland waters. Obvious why, the inland hire business wouldn't survive without the exemption.

That does not apply to all inland waterways, and only for hire cruisers. If you are in your own boat on the canals you will need an ICC. If you want to hire a small motor boat on one of the many lakes with an engine bigger than 10hp you will need Powerboat ICC or similar evidence equivalent to the French national requirement.

So the hiring without a licence is very restricted and not a general rule.

 

[Davy_S]

In the OP original post, no one was talking about hiring or chartering, or owning a boat in Spain, mainly about passing through or visiting a safe refuge, I see it as no proof of competence is needed. In Greece to charter as in Spain, I can understand them asking for proof of competence, I have no problem with that. I have proof of competence in Mobo to 24 mtr and yacht/sail to 24 mtr, so I have no axe to grind. The view of some here that a boy scout ICC will do, is unbelievable, there is a difference between power and sail that no one has mentioned!
A punter can hire in the French canals, but an owner needs a CEVNI.

 

[Tranona]

In the OP original post, no one was talking about hiring or chartering, or owning a boat in Spain, mainly about passing through or visiting a safe refuge, I see it as no proof of competence is needed. In Greece to charter as in Spain, I can understand them asking for proof of competence, I have no problem with that. I have proof of competence in Mobo to 24 mtr and yacht/sail to 24 mtr, so I have no axe to grind. The view of some here that a boy scout ICC will do, is unbelievable, there is a difference between power and sail that no one has mentioned!
A punter can hire in the French canals, but an owner needs a CEVNI.

You have missed out the bit babout what constitutes innocent passage, and the Spanish decree does not mention it, referring only to Spanish waters.

The point is that very few yachts in Spanish waters are on innocent passage. They are either based there or cruising in territorial waters. So Spain has every right to impose its own requirements or require such yachts to meet local requirements.

The fear of many, including me, is that local officials will not appreciate the complexity of the law or that it will be implemented variable as in the examples I quoted earlier.

 

[BrianH]

In the OP original post, no one was talking about hiring or chartering, or owning a boat in Spain, mainly about passing through or visiting a safe refuge, I see it as no proof of competence is needed.

I would think the point being discussed is normal cruising in Spanish waters, meaning stopping deliberately on Spanish soil. Passing through and visiting a safe refuge is referred to as innocent passage ... that is, with no intention of stopping.

Some years ago I sailed from NE Italy to the Ionian without intending to stop in Croatia and invoke the heavy fees in so doing, but to make my first landfall in southern Italy. The first part of the course lay parallel to, and inshore of, the Istrian coastline and at midnight of that first day we encountered strong headwinds and breaking seas just south of Pula and took refuge in an anchorage on the southern tip of Istria.

I was on tenterhooks the entire time until we could get underway again. Under normal interpretation of free passage we had every right to have taken shelter under the circumstances but having earlier witnessed the modus operandi of the maritime police, would not have given much for our chances without entry documentation had they controlled our anchorage the next morning. The minimum I expected was to be escorted into Pula for formal entry.