Bru
Well-Known Member
Tarmac it, concrete it, modernise it ... so make it like every other marina. Can't we just leave one or two places as they are?
Burnham and Brightlingsea spring straight to mind.
Southwold full up!
- Thread starter Bristolfashion
- Start date
Tarmac it, concrete it, modernise it ... so make it like every other marina. Can't we just leave one or two places as they are?
Burnham and Brightlingsea spring straight to mind.
Greg2
Well-Known Member
Of course the harbour is a little down at heel and suffers from too many tourists and day trippers, some of whom can’t be bothered to walk the length of themselves so there are too many cars. But visit outside busy periods and appreciate it for what it is. There are several inshore commercial fishing vessels plying their trade as well as several sea angling charter boats and a thriving boatyard that, amongst other things, restores old wooden vessels to their former glory. Add to that fish sale huts, a couple of restaurant/cafes, a fish and chip shop, a shop/chandlery and of course the pub and it strikes me that there is plenty of commercial activity. Most moorings are occupied with very few simply left to decay and your feet stay dry on all but the highest of spring rides. As for marsh land, it and the wildlife that populates it has its own beauty.
So in my view it isn’t perfect but it does have a charm of its own. I am not trying to convince you to think differently - if your bag is pristine tarmac roads and modern facilities that is fine - I appreciate those too but I just don’t want everywhere to be the same ?
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Daydream believer
Well-Known Member
What is wrong with Burnham? I drive or cycle there regularly. Nothing wrong with Brightlingsea. The pontoons are far better than those ghastly poles of the 70,s Certainly allows more boats than it did I suspect. Or is that the issue- Only a few allowed to go there?
LittleSister
Well-Known Member
So, to sum up, some think it has changed too much, and Daydream Believer thinks it hasn't changed enough.
I think you missed the smiley. My point was that there are a variety of competing opinions.
One might even say that Southwold has successfully plotted a middle course between the two 'extremes' of an earlier poster (forget which) who bewailed it wasn't like it used to be, and yourself who wished for it to be thoroughly modernised. More accurately, though, there are a wide range of competing interests at Southwold Harbour, but none with the overall control to assert and implement its own vision. The current outcome of that is what, variously, both pleases and displeases us.
So I never said or meant that your opinions 'are wholly wrong'. Your opinions are as valid as mine. Luckily we don't all think the same.
"It needs a darned good tidy up. It needs dragging into the modern age, because any pretence at olde worlde has long gone & one has to accept that it will never return, In spite of what one might hope for."
I rather like the fact that it is neither 'chocolate-box' olde-worldy, nor suburbanly tidy. I can imagine a fantasy scenario of beautiful, distinctive contemporary buildings and (hard) landscaping, but that is never going to happen here. Any modern development here will be cheapskate and piecemeal. The area is very prone to flooding, and that is projected to get significantly worse with anticipated sea level rise and 'flashier' river flows. so it is both physically and economically marginal land.
"It is detached from the town & when i spoke to a waitress in a restaurant asking the way to the harbour, she did not know where it was. That says a lot."
It is separate from the town, but (nowadays only?) shares a name, and most people who visit or commute into the town may well not know it. So what? I know towns with ports only a few hundred yards from the town centre that many people would be unaware of and/or not interested by.
" When I drove there down a gravel road there were potholes so large , full of water & very deep that it was dodgy driving ones car into them."
It does get quite bad, but is periodically repaired (and had been last time I visited). It suspect that there might be some dispute as to who has responsibility for its maintenance and imposing/enforcing restrictions. As I opined in a previous thread where you complained about its condition, those potholes, and the gravel surface, does have the benefit of deterring through traffic and townies. Personally, I rather like the fact it doesn't look like suburbia or a supermarket car park (there is a car park towards the sea end of the road).
" The old buildings were in a state of disrepair & had been botched to keep them going."
Some are, some are not. I personally like that the old sheds and shacks are patched and re-used.
" Cars were parked randomly giving the place a rather untidy atmosphere - but not one of "charm""
That road comprises working boatyards, other businesses and private land. Much of the parking is from the boatyards and other businesses and their customers, boat owners, liveaboards, and visitors seeking to avoid the charges in the car parks provided. I suspect there is some legal impediment, as well as the gravel surface, to anyone imposing a rigid parking scheme.
"The area around the harbour is surrounded by unapealing marshland"
The marsh is a fact of nature - this is the East Coast, after all! It appeals to some (humans and wildlife) and not to others. (I believe the river mouth used to move location a lot, but human intervention has stabilised it in its current position. )
"The bridge just above the harbour was closed as it was in a state of disrepair- Now sorted I am told"
These things do happen. C'est la vie. There is also ferry across the river for pedestrians and their dogs. Presumably there was no footbridge at all before it replaced the lifting railway bridge in the same location, and the ferry was the only option then. There would have been far fewer leisure walkers in those days, though.
"The pontoon nearer the mouth are privately owned on a comercial basis but one assumes that the returns are very low. This results in the pontoons colapsing into the sea, the ramps being unsteady & the piles rotting, allowing staging to droop dangerously.( see earlier post) Attempts have been made at various locations to repair, but poorly done & with little respect for the end result. The whole lot needs ripping out & re building."
As someone mentioned above, those stagings are mainly privately owned by individuals. Some are unused or very little used but retained by those who own them, for whatever reason. How they fix them (or not) is up to them. (Personally, I think they should be compulsory purchased and donated to poverty stricken boat owners such as myself.
)"On the south side the yacht club ( I believe it is a YC, I may be mistaken) shows little in its architectural construction to blend with its surroundings."
I don't think the large building on the Walberswick side is a yacht club. I guess it was once an industrial/warehouse building (does anyone know?). (There is a yacht club on the Southwold side, in a less prominent building.
You don't like the place. That's really OK with me. Some do, some don't. Other places are available.
Daydream believer
Well-Known Member
"Suffer" from tourists. So it should only be reserved for a few yotties should it? That is a bit unfair.
Although I would agree about the mess they bring. But then yotties with dogs are just as bad so one has to be reasonable
Of course we all have differing opinions & i can see yours. I started my rant because a year ago I was hammered for suggesting that Southwold was a "dump". This time I decided to cover it with some pointers
however, I think I will leave it there as I do not want what I really only want to be a friendly discussion to turn into a heated one & i am tending to "trolling" so I that's it. Enjoy Southwold everyone-- See you at Lowestoft RNSYC - But not in the loos( not that I am in the habit of meeting others in the toilets anyway
)- they were stinking when i was last there- OOps here I go again-- sorry 
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Major_Clanger
Well-Known Member
Obviously I should have included those you mention.... What it doesn't need is to be a prom for visitor's cars to drive up and down, and especially not an area where they can park. I've sat at the excellent fish and chip shop just along from HMS many times, only to have the view removed when someone parks their enormous SUV outside.
No, it shouldn't be tarmac and nor should their be a car park. Both those things will detract from the charm. It should be improved, not changed. Fill the potholes in with gravel and then grade it.
Maldon is the perfect example of a Harbour that's suffered from modernisation. I lived on the quay and worked on the barges in the late 80s and it was very different then. Sadly the fishing fleet had already died but the remnants of it were moored along the prom side of the river (at the time that beach was solely for fishermen). The quay itself was mostly loose gravel with the odd bit of paving...... It was decaying certainly but the way in which MDC have modernised it has also taken away its magic. The quay is a poor caricature of what used to be there; signs everywhere warning of a sudden drop (on a quay??? Surely not??), safety chains, neat block paving and concrete provide a decent footfall but the barges are no longer encouraged to dress their sails each spring because it looks 'messy'. The fishing boats and beached MTBs have all gone. The council have erected some informative signs celebrating the town's maritime heritage, which ironically they have done their fair part of destroying.
Bru
Well-Known Member
What's wrong with Burnham is a loss of character. The flood wall ruins the view, the shipyard have been turned into posh housing and the yacht clubs aren't exactly attractive looking buildings either. Even so, I'm still quite fond of the place
Brightlingsea on the other hand engenders much the same response from me as you feel about Southwold!
I just don't get the appeal of Brittlesea
An ugly housing development. £21 a night to sit in the middle of the river with no facilities. Several beer tokens to get ashore by water taxi. Or pay even more to sit in a mud hole surrounded by the aforementioned housing development. And when you get ashore it's all a bit of a dump. The pub is OK but no more than that. Ditto the club. Ditto the much lauded curry house(s) - actually had mixed experiences there ranging from OK at best to not very good at all at worst. Nope, don't get the attraction at all
Give me the Black Shore at Southwold any day!
Daydream believer
Well-Known Member
But Brightlingsea has always been like that apart from the marina and afew houses, has it not? The eateries are up to the management & whilst i would not eat in a curry house I have managed to buy excellent fish & chips, I have dined in 2 good restaurants. So the quality of curry house management does not detract from the overall place. .I have heard some bad reports of eateries along the Orwell, so does that detract on how the Orwell looks? The club is friendly & facilities are fair in there. Of course some are "anti club" forumites, as can be seen on past posts on this forum. But this club seems OK - but I have only been in there a couple of times recently. One would be dead unlucky to get turned away in busy times & mooring is certainly a lot easier than it was & miles better than Southwold. It can be more comfortable than Ramsgate etc. We go as a group & buy a pack of tokens & it is not expensive. The overnight charge is £19 for my 31 ft boat which is the cheapest I have found on the east coast so far. Of course there may be others.For those tightwads you can row ashore in your dinghyWhat's wrong with Burnham is a loss of character. The flood wall ruins the view, the shipyard have been turned into posh housing and the yacht clubs aren't exactly attractive looking buildings either. Even so, I'm still quite fond of the place
Brightlingsea on the other hand engenders much the same response from me as you feel about Southwold!
I just don't get the appeal of Brittlesea
An ugly housing development. £21 a night to sit in the middle of the river with no facilities. Several beer tokens to get ashore by water taxi. Or pay even more to sit in a mud hole surrounded by the aforementioned housing development. And when you get ashore it's all a bit of a dump. The pub is OK but no more than that. Ditto the club. Ditto the much lauded curry house(s) - actually had mixed experiences there ranging from OK at best to not very good at all at worst. Nope, don't get the attraction at all
Give me the Black Shore at Southwold any day!
As for the sea wall at Burnham are you suggesting the place should flood?Standing, one can see over the top & public seating is raised so one can see over the top. So unless one is laying drunk in the street
I do not accept your comment. Places like Tucker Brown & Kings were no longer commercially viable. The Crouch YC could not find enough members, The Burnham YC nearly collapsed financially years ago ( I do not know the full story ) & emergency action was needed to keep it going. What happened to the Hospitals sailing club. as these places collapse what do you want? derilict holes on the skyline? Sailing on the Crouch is dying because people no longer want to race in a ditch. The Swallowtail has made getting in & out of the Crouch a nightmare for some. I sailed there extensively for 10 years, but I have no interest in sailing in the Crouch anymore. I do go to Burnham for other reasons regularly though. One has to recognise that Burnham is no longer all about yachting.
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Bru
Well-Known Member
And I've always hated it
Give me grotty run down falling apart Southwold any day
Daydream believer
Well-Known Member
To each his ownAnd I've always hated it
Give me grotty run down falling apart Southwold any day
Slowboat35
Well-Known Member
Southwold is what it is, a somewhat ramshackle, rustic and unmodernised relic in a world of plastic, concrete and neon.
It oozes atmosphere, mud, it isn't very user-friendly and the "facilities", such as they are, are poor to simply shut. Some of that is good, some less so. Visually and atmosphere-wise it's the tops.
If they charged on that basis and not as a full-bling marina I'd have no problem, but for what you (often don't) get the charges are utterly excessive. I know that's the Council's decision, not the Harbourmaster's but extortionate is the only way to describe them - and that's if you're fortunate enough to be on a visitor's pontoon with water and electric. In busy times many if not most visitors will be denied those basics yet still pay full whack. For what? A treacherous, slimy, muddy paddle to a treacherous, slimy muddy pontoon perhaps on the opposite bank of the river? For not even a toilet or shower out of office hours, unless the dinghy club extend their generous courtesy f.o.c. to make up for the sheer avarice of the council?
I call that totally unacceptable. It's an unplesasant and unwelcome sign of Ripoff Britain hard at work, a sad reflection on such a lovely throwback to simpler and more decent times.
Still, the town holds it's own with it's £5 sausage rolls and stupendous charges for a quick look around a brewery so the Council isn't the only one at that game.
It oozes atmosphere, mud, it isn't very user-friendly and the "facilities", such as they are, are poor to simply shut. Some of that is good, some less so. Visually and atmosphere-wise it's the tops.
If they charged on that basis and not as a full-bling marina I'd have no problem, but for what you (often don't) get the charges are utterly excessive. I know that's the Council's decision, not the Harbourmaster's but extortionate is the only way to describe them - and that's if you're fortunate enough to be on a visitor's pontoon with water and electric. In busy times many if not most visitors will be denied those basics yet still pay full whack. For what? A treacherous, slimy, muddy paddle to a treacherous, slimy muddy pontoon perhaps on the opposite bank of the river? For not even a toilet or shower out of office hours, unless the dinghy club extend their generous courtesy f.o.c. to make up for the sheer avarice of the council?
I call that totally unacceptable. It's an unplesasant and unwelcome sign of Ripoff Britain hard at work, a sad reflection on such a lovely throwback to simpler and more decent times.
Still, the town holds it's own with it's £5 sausage rolls and stupendous charges for a quick look around a brewery so the Council isn't the only one at that game.
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LittleSister
Well-Known Member
I very much doubt shoreside businesses like Tucker Brown were not viable, in Burnham and many other places where they have gone. More likely the value of the land they occupied for other uses had risen to the level where they could make more by selling the land than they could in many years by continuing the business.
Daydream believer
Well-Known Member
No, they lost 35% of their moorings ( I seem to recall Bob Cole telling me 350 to about 220 ) due to changes in the fairway which reduced income plus moved yachts way from their maintenance in the winter. their yard suffered from the lack of wooden yachts to build & the loss of skilled workforce to build them, along with rising costs compared to GRP yachts. Their yard workshops were not modern enough for the production of GRP boats. They did not have the skills for GRP. the directors retired & sold to new owners. They then saw the chance to construct a yacht harbour by selling the TB property & using that as deposit to start the investment on the Yacht harbour. Unfortunately they went into liquidation & the enterprise failed initially, but was picked up by new owners. I personally think that the development of TB's yard in exchange for the marina was a fair exchange, as it did include an area of parkland for locals to walk & enjoy which they did not have beforehand. So that was a plus for Burnham that yotties did not see, but residents did. It is not all about sailors.
There was another builder, forget the name, that built the first Robbers right by Tucker brown's yard but that was unviable as well so production of the Robber either moved or ceased, I am not sure. The buildings were re developed .
Peticrows, up by the Royal Corinthian was another yard that became unviable as it was too small, I believe it moved over to the yard by Rice & Coles & became Neil & Peticrow ( have I got that correct) who makes the Dragons.
But to build them meant the construction of modern steel clad warehouse type factories. If you want to keep boat building, then that is what you get. Plans are afoot to move their premises I am told.
The Royal Corinthian could not support itself in its old form, so years ago it was forced to sell part of its land at the rear for development & that does not detract from the area & meant that the RCYC is still with us. Things have to change & personally the changes are reasonable. One has to accept that the businesses of old are no longer needed & maintaining old buildings just so some ocassional Yottie can look at it from the sea is not necessarily the best for the residents of the town. I find Burnham a nice enough place to walk round. Pubs are Ok & I can always get a meal. Has a bank, a supermarket & a railway station. A builders merchant & a yacht harbour. What is not to like.
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Mel
Well-Known Member
The road along Southwold Harbour is a total disgrace and has been like that for a long time. I visit regularly and can see no improvement since last year. I do not understand how the organisation responsible can get away with this when Health and Safety should be their top priority !
Daydream believer
Well-Known Member
It is unfortunate that my photo did not show the really bad bit before the buildings.
At least you support my comment re the road -- Thanks
Major_Clanger
Well-Known Member
All the road needs is more gravel and a little levelling. Couple that with no tripper's cars and some common sense and job's a good 'un.
Health and Safety is the last thing it needs. Before you know it it'll be covered in tarmac with signs everywhere, barriers, pedestrian and cycle lanes and all manner of things that will help destroy the reason many of us like it.
Leighb
Well-Known Member
Personally we like Southwold with all its faults. Regarding the road along the harbour, it may well be "unadopted" in which case who is responsible for any repairs? Also the appalling state of the surface does mean that everyone has to drive quite slowly which is just as well with regard to the local businesses, walkers, children etc.
Tradewinds
Well-Known Member
I think the potholes do get 'filled' from time to time but it doesn't take much traffic to put an often flooded formerly potholed road back to square one again. I agree with others, it is a pretty rough ride and is akin to a slalom course in trying to avoid the deepest pits.
Daydream believer
Well-Known Member
Too many Trippers you say
So here is a point to consider Personally I dislike the caravan /campervan community. I dislike the campervans possibly because of the brash way they get stuck in front gardens, sometimes with the tail stuck in the street as if they own it. They park as & where they like- or so it seems. But then they may feel that they have a right
I wonder if you tend to agree. Possibly
Now you tell us there are too many tourists & day trippers in Southwold. Has it occured to you that having parked your poncy waterbourne version of a campervan on the pontoon, the minute you step ashore & start wandering about, admiring the view, buying fish & chips & eating them on a bench, you have become a tourist & tripper
So for the benefit of the Southwold, that you love so much perhaps you should start the ball rolling & sod off elsewhere
Well you said there were too many tourists not me.
Then perhaps we could get a berth
Major_Clanger
Well-Known Member
We're all trippers and holiday makers. With a small and hopelessly overcrowded country the pressure on places like Southwold is only going to increase.Too many Trippers you say
So here is a point to consider Personally I dislike the caravan /campervan community. I dislike the campervans possibly because of the brash way they get stuck in front gardens, sometimes with the tail stuck in the street as if they own it. They park as & where they like- or so it seems. But then they may feel that they have a right
I wonder if you tend to agree. Possibly
Now you tell us there are too many tourists & day trippers in Southwold. Has it occured to you that having parked your poncy waterbourne version of a campervan on the pontoon, the minute you step ashore & start wandering about, admiring the view, buying fish & chips & eating them on a bench, you have become a tourist & tripper
So for the benefit of the Southwold, that you love so much perhaps you should start the ball rolling & sod off elsewhere
Well you said there were too many tourists not me.
Then perhaps we could get a berth
All we can do is respect the area and the people who live there.
