dunedin
Well-known member
We had some lovely galletes and went back for some crepes and coffee, so wasn’t all “awful”. Also kind of depends on expectations - don’t go to any outdoor show for a cordon bleu meal.
Southampton Boat Show attendance
- Thread starter Concerto
- Start date
LiftyK
Well-known member
Ah, I think I may be confused about the context. I was referring to Southampton.
zoidberg
Well-known member
A 'fair enough' metaphor for the decline of SIBS was the absence of activity at the TimeMedia 'Boaty Mags' stand. Save for one solitary and uncommunicative lady, it was deserted.... and there were barriers around the edges.
Compare that with the days when Richard Shead held court! There were cold beers on offer with the subscriptions, and G&Ts for the favoured few.
RS may not have been everyone's 'cup of tea' but he knew how to party!
Compare that with the days when Richard Shead held court! There were cold beers on offer with the subscriptions, and G&Ts for the favoured few.
RS may not have been everyone's 'cup of tea' but he knew how to party!
Wansworth
Well-known member
As an aside I helped to deliver “Sidewinder”aKelsall designed and built pro that had started in the round Britain race must have been early 70s.The proa was lifted ashore to display at the entrance
Seven Spades
Well-known member
I have just compleated a feedback survey about the boat show. The questionnaire had loads of questions about catering so it seems to me that they have an inkling that the food is not good and are asking questions to see what the public think.
flaming
Well-known member
Quite difficult to do that, but actually when I was at NBS, that was done. A big program of surveys, telephone interviews with identified "boaters", focus groups etc...If they want useful feedback perhaps they should survey those who didn't go rather than those who did
The answers were pretty clear, they wanted interesting demonstrations and talks from experts.
On the basis of that the strategy for London was set for the next couple of years. We arranged for experts from all sorts of areas to talk. Tom Cunliffe gave talks, Simon Keeling did weather talks, there were talks from industry experts on radar, AIS, you name it there was probably a talk on it. We had an absolutely brilliant bloke talk on Diesel engine maintenance and problem finding. Easily the driest subject, but such a character. We also had people like Mike Golding and other "celebs" talking about their careers.
Meanwhile we built a working life-size model of a boat in front of fans and gave demonstrations in both cruising chute use and regular spinnaker flying. John Goode did the cruising chute ones (it was his idea to start with) and Pip Hare did the kite flying ones. For extra YBW credit points it even actually had the mast out of a contessa 32!
And then, on the massive pool there were liferaft demos, lifejacket demos, throwing lines, you name it.
All of this was referenced on every add for the show, and the timetable was on big posters around the show. Frequent tannoy announcements were made "starting soon is the talk by Tom Cunliffe..." Etc.
Plus the pool was available for much of the day for people to actually try things. You could go paddle boarding, wakeboarding, canoeing... We expected this to be mostly kids, but actually it was at least half adults having a go.
In hindsight it was pretty clear that what people think they want out of a boat show when they're not at one, and what they actually do when they go were quite different... Most of the expert talks took place to less than 20 people. For some of them we actively had to hustle people onto the stage area just to avoid the talk going ahead to nobody.... On days when over 10k people had come through the doors. Despite the fact that these were exactly the content that the the people who had been interviewed and focus grouped etc told us that they wanted to see at the show. The spinnaker demos were a little better as they were quite a spectacle, but 50 was a good crowd. However, you needed to be in place 15 minutes before the pro wakeboarding show on the massive pool if you wanted a seat....
Meanwhile these forums were full of people just saying "the show is crap, don't bother going". Which was quite disheartening to be honest. And every journalist's "review of the show" only featured the boats and some kit... Never any mention of the expert talks the "added value" of the show. Even, in one notable case, when the journalist doing the review actually had some spots on the stage as an expert themselves! I had words...
So clearly if those things, that took an amazing amount of work to put together, and cost "quite a bit" weren't holding people's attention when they were at the show, it stands to good reason that they weren't likely to be a good sell to the public as a reason to go to the show...
Which is a big part of why the added activities at Southampton have been so scaled back compared to when I was involved. It's just not worth it, as it doesn't bring more people through the doors. Which is a massive shame, as the shows, and London in particular, were such a good opportunity to promote sailing and boating as things that people might want to try....
With the death of chandlery as a significant part of the show offering, and the consequent drop in visitor numbers "looking for a bargain" it's going to be a tough period whilst the industry works out what the show is really for, and how much the industry as a whole is prepared to pay for it.... Honestly, if I still worked in the marketing department of the show, I'd be asking the industry to make up its mind about that before I tried to work out how to persuade people to visit.
Bouba
Well-known member
The problem with manufacturers having full order books and dealers no stock is that they might feel like de-investing in boat shows. But if the boat shows die then when the downturn happens there will be no shop window for the industry.
Speaking personally, however, even with my four covid injections I would avoid a boat show like the plague
Speaking personally, however, even with my four covid injections I would avoid a boat show like the plague
zoidberg
Well-known member
I'm wondering if it's different in Germany, Nederlands and France. And if so, what - if anything - could be done by BMF to turn things around.
It may simply be that 'the great british public' simply have gone off boats and boating, in droves.....
It may simply be that 'the great british public' simply have gone off boats and boating, in droves.....
Sandy
Well-known member
An interesting last paragraph. Thanks for posting.
If you have any contacts in the SIBS Senior Management team can you point them in the direction of this thread as there are a number of very valid opinions expressed.
My thoughts, just tagged on here.
Personally, I'd like a shorter show. One that has specific themes for each day, perhaps a focus on different types of water use, e.g. motor boats , yachts, inland, dinghies (perhaps not as they have their own show) and safety. Talks are good, but need to be short and sharp with time for discussion with the speaker afterwards. Not just a Q&A session, but time round a table to explore the talk in depth for those who want to.
There needs to be a good technical section, this is already happening. I want to speak to manufacturers and able to pick the brains of a geek who understands an issue that I have with their kit or discuss the technical reasons why that latest change they have made makes it useless at sea. To look at new products and consider if they would be useful or not and to give feedback, e.g. Why does Barton not put a part number on their kit? In discussion I was able to find out that they knew what it is, but this customer did not. Buying replacement bits is never easy. Going online or to my favorite supplier and asking for a 'thingi-bob about yo big' is never easy. A lot easier if I ask for a Barton part X321, the chap from Barton realised it would be useful. They have lost a customer!
I'm not keen on celebrity sailors. I quietly scratch my head and ask, Value do they add? I don't look at the show website and think, Oh I see Sandy is there I must go and see him and look at his boat that crossed some of sea or other. It would be interesting to hear what their foot fall is like.
A decent bar is needed at 'normal' not central London prices. Many people meet up at the show, or bump into people they have not seen for ages, and need space for pint and a chat. As for the catering, this needs to be cheaper and slicker. I am a member of Devon County Agricultural Association (the price of entry to the County Show is about the same) they have a large members tent with very 'corporate catering', that company does all the shows. I refuse to eat in the members tent as the food is nowhere near as good as I can get in the showground. Perhaps a look at some really good small farm shop type catering rather than the corporate end of the market. I highly recommend Kenniford Farm Shop they do an amazing bacon, sausage or, breakfast (egg, sausage and bacon) bap all for about £5. They sell thousands a day. There must be that sort of outlet near Southampton.
Final point, but one for all shows, ban all stall holders from using mobile phones on a stall in public view.
That should give the SIBS team a starter for 10.
Caladh
Well-known member
The French generally love their boats……….
Frogmogman
Well-known member
FWIW, visitor numbers to Le Grand Pavois at La Rochelle were 73000 over the 6 days, 10% down on last year, but the weather was truly vile for about half of the show, so all in all, the organizers profess themselves reasonably satisfied with the result.
800 brands and 750 bateaux on show, with 110 new boats or products. There were apparently over 100 boats one could go out in.
800 brands and 750 bateaux on show, with 110 new boats or products. There were apparently over 100 boats one could go out in.
ontheplane
Well-known member
As most boats are on the water already, test runs could be an idea. - although I realise insurance issues may exist plus if a boat is out too much others can’t view it… I just don’t know how to get the boat show back to its former glory - but perhaps put some emphasis on “normal people” and “normal boats”. A Sealine used to start at 19’ and cost the same as a family car - now they start at 30’ ish and cost more than most 4 bed houses… where are the small, cheap(ish) boats…? A “cheap” boat at this show was £150k - it’s all gone mad!
I also agree it’s a shame there was no real chandlery there.
Thing is, why pay £120 (2 adults 2 kids) to walk around a show to look at boats you can’t afford?
i paid £20 online, went on my own and looked at allsorts cos I can’t afford any boat at the moment so they were all just as unaffordable as each other! I had a good day, but I’mnot what they need there, and I wouldn’t have paid £32 for a ticket…
I also agree it’s a shame there was no real chandlery there.
Thing is, why pay £120 (2 adults 2 kids) to walk around a show to look at boats you can’t afford?
i paid £20 online, went on my own and looked at allsorts cos I can’t afford any boat at the moment so they were all just as unaffordable as each other! I had a good day, but I’mnot what they need there, and I wouldn’t have paid £32 for a ticket…
dunedin
Well-known member
There was a lot of interest (and purchases?) amongst the SUP and kayaks etc, which are small cheapish boats. Also plenty of small RIBs etc. Sailing wise there was an Oppie dinghy, and lots of other sailing dinghies (though these seemed to get little interest). Also quite a few day sailers etc.
But there is an economic reality of building cruising yachts that many of the costs - of components and labour to fit them, are pretty fixed. Consequently cruising yachts under 30 seem to be disproportionately expensive to build, and therefore don’t sell. Everybody who wants one buys second hand instead. That’s not a show issue but an industry one.
On the other hand, still enough rich people, including those who can sell expensive houses, to make a decent market for boats 40 foot plus.
Time Out
Well-known member
Not everyone's cup of tea
I understand he has moved on, still serving booze from his stand!Anyhow as a punter myself, I used to exhibit there
I went to spend some dollars wanting to take some items home with me, literally nothing there to buy on the spot. I did however walk away with a decent inflatable kayak that I had been thinking about adding to the yoga board I purchased last year. I will go for the social next year, certainly not as a buying punter.
zoidberg
Well-known member
Some years ago, I was roped in to help with the exhibit of a brand of cruising sailboats by the importer, and duly was briefed and did my stints on one or other of the boats. One afternoon, we were visited by an Irish lady who announced she'd come all the way from Cork specifically to purchase one of 'our' boats, and I duly helped her explore and examine. All seemed hunky-dory, she expressed satisfaction.... except for the garish upholstery fabric. 'Could that be changed....?'
I knew the 2 factory options were non-negotiable, but I also knew - for I'd researched this very point - that one of the upholstery firms also exhibiting would recover ( from a wide range of fabrics ) as wanted, and at a good price. I also knew that on-cost could be met by the importer's budget for 'marginal, negotiatable items' which hadn't yet been affected. So I agreed with the Irish lady that that could be accommodated. She seemed well satisfied.
Until the importer's wife, an overbearing individual, heard about the impending sale and horned in, bossily taking over. She started down the 'confirmation' path that had already been explored, to rising irritation in the Irish lady who wanted to get on with it. Then came the question - 'Which of the two available fabrics do you want to choose?' Stunned silence....
Within a few seconds the two 'Alpha' women were at loggerheads. The would-be purchaser determined SHE would have her choice of fabrics, as I had agreed..... the owner's wife adamant that it would be one of the two factory fabrics, or nothing.
Neither bothered to ask me 'how?'
Of course, the Irish lady stormed off, vowing to buy elsewhere - which she did, within half an hour.
The importer queried me later. It emerged that that was not the first time his good wife had 'stuffed' up a business deal.
I knew the 2 factory options were non-negotiable, but I also knew - for I'd researched this very point - that one of the upholstery firms also exhibiting would recover ( from a wide range of fabrics ) as wanted, and at a good price. I also knew that on-cost could be met by the importer's budget for 'marginal, negotiatable items' which hadn't yet been affected. So I agreed with the Irish lady that that could be accommodated. She seemed well satisfied.
Until the importer's wife, an overbearing individual, heard about the impending sale and horned in, bossily taking over. She started down the 'confirmation' path that had already been explored, to rising irritation in the Irish lady who wanted to get on with it. Then came the question - 'Which of the two available fabrics do you want to choose?' Stunned silence....
Within a few seconds the two 'Alpha' women were at loggerheads. The would-be purchaser determined SHE would have her choice of fabrics, as I had agreed..... the owner's wife adamant that it would be one of the two factory fabrics, or nothing.
Neither bothered to ask me 'how?'
Of course, the Irish lady stormed off, vowing to buy elsewhere - which she did, within half an hour.
The importer queried me later. It emerged that that was not the first time his good wife had 'stuffed' up a business deal.
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Frogmogman
Well-known member
Seems a very silly thing to lose a sale over. There are some people who should be kept away from selling.
I remember one year we sold an OOD 34 to an Italian gentleman who was the UK importer of Alcantara, and (unsurprisingly) wished his boat to be upholstered in said fabric, which we did. It looked spectacular, and I’ve always rather hankered after the same finish.
IIRC it was treated as a no-cost option, as he supplied and paid for the material.
Imray
New member
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Frogmogman
Well-known member
Just visited the Salon Nautique in Paris today. A pale shadow of it’s former self. All of the boats in only one hall, hardly any sailing yachts (Beneteau only had 2 on their stand, and neither was the new first 36 that I actually wanted to look at). Not much to choose from in clothing and chandlery. I think, like the London show, it too may be in its death throes.
Seven Spades
Well-known member
Düsseldorf and Annapolis are probably the only two shows worth going to.