'Sound Signals'

Re: \'Sound Signals\'

[ QUOTE ]
I dont recall the rudder on a laser in detail but I would have expected

To raise you oink a bit of string and stuff in a jamming cleat.

to lower you just un cleat.........

[/ QUOTE ]
Oh dear oh dear ....

The last UPHaul on a rudder I had was on my Fireball dinghy - the previous 2x420's didn't have them, nor did the ISO or RS800 or RS400. They all had methods of fixing the rudder down - the best is fixed line, not bungy - on a quick release cleat that I need to sort out. Dad's Laser did have an uphaul, SWMBO's didn't ...

You don't lower the rudder by uncleating it - the force of the water stops it from going anywhere near down ...

Ah well
 
Re: \'Sound Signals\'

I assumed you were trolling, it felt like a trolls tag team was having a go , picking silly arguments, you shouldnt feel patronised, there was no way I could have known you were a sailing tutor.

I dont know the Hamble that well but I am surprised that you class it as a narrow channel, perhaps around the 'Jolly Sailor' but that is considerably wider than my narrow channel as I specified being 10-15 m wide which is not sufficient for me to turn in.

If you were not trolling where did all that silly nonsense come in about deep drafted dinghies ? how could a deep drafted dinghy sail across 1 ft of water if they can not reduce their draft ?

I think I have been trolled enough for today thank you .

I truly have an interest in knowing about deep drafted dinghies and if you really have an interest in educating mobos about extra dangers then please start a new thread with photos so we know what to look out for.
If you post it here it will be lost on all but a few as I am sure most have lost interest in reading this /forums/images/graemlins/crazy.gif

I am also intrigued now to learn the procedure for lifting the rudder and 'Keel' on a laser . /forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif The old ones and the new style deep drafted version , are they much faster /forums/images/graemlins/cool.gif
 
Re: \'Sound Signals\'

[ QUOTE ]
the best is fixed line, not bungy - on a quick release cleat that I need to sort out. Dad's Laser did have an uphaul, SWMBO's didn't ...

You don't lower the rudder by uncleating it - the force of the water stops it from going anywhere near down ...

Ah well

[/ QUOTE ]

We were talking about a laser , you two must be on a wind up .

I know the force of water holds it up, that what the shock cord is for.

If I may just reiterate before I depart

the Laser was already in a foot of water so I presume it was not the newer deep drafted version.
 
Re: \'Sound Signals\'

Ok, I've bitten, have a look at the other thread.

And I'll tell you now that a laser draws more than 1 foot. The overall boat is just shy of 14 foot long.

laser-sailplan.gif
 
Re: \'Sound Signals\'

Thank you for the other photos , I will look out for them /forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif

As to the laser, the deep bits lift up, I've seen them upside down on a car !
Do you really think I am that gullible .........








Oh I am , I'm still here /forums/images/graemlins/laugh.gif
 
Re: \'Sound Signals\'

[ QUOTE ]


As to the laser, the deep bits lift up, I've seen them upside down on a car !
Do you really think I am that gullible .........








Oh I am , I'm still here /forums/images/graemlins/laugh.gif

[/ QUOTE ]

As myself and others have said - it's very difficult to lift the rudder whist underway and certainly not something you would do to avoid an errant MOBO.
 
Re: \'Sound Signals\'

Flaming

[ QUOTE ]
ot giving way to sailing craft whenever you are in a river or other restricted channel are dangerous as other less experienced MOBOers might actually believe them.


[/ QUOTE ]

Just to clarify.

I am not sure of your views.

In the case of say a 50 to 60 foot MoBo in a narrow buoyed channel that he cannot go safely outside and a dinghy race organised across the channel where they are impeding the progress of the MoBo - in your opinion is the MoBo the stand on vessel?
 
Re: \'Sound Signals\'

[ QUOTE ]
Flaming

[ QUOTE ]
ot giving way to sailing craft whenever you are in a river or other restricted channel are dangerous as other less experienced MOBOers might actually believe them.


[/ QUOTE ]

Just to clarify.

I am not sure of your views.

In the case of say a 50 to 60 foot MoBo in a barrow buoyed channel hat he cannot go safely outside and a dinghy race organised across the channel where they are impeding the progress of the MoBo - in your opinion is the MoBo the stand on vessel?

[/ QUOTE ]

If the channel is very narrow, then yes, it probably would be the stand on vessel.

But if it truly was a narrow channel, surrounded by other water that is navicable by other users (dinghys) then surely it would be really quite easy to predict that they will cross the channel well in advance. It's not like they're hiding behind hedgerows is it!? For example I often encounter sailing races in the channel aproaching Port Solent, and adjust my speed over a minute before we would have met that allow the dinghys to cross ahead. It's not rocket science, and I'll repeat that almost all such incidents are caused by the large vessel's crew having their heads "in" the boat and not thinking far enough ahead.

So whilst you would be technically correct in that the large MOBO would probably be the stand on vessel, I would counter that it probably be due to innatention or shere bloody-mindedness that it was there in the first place.
 
Re: \'Sound Signals\'

[ QUOTE ]
o whilst you would be technically correct in that the large MOBO would probably be the stand on vessel, I would counter that it probably be due to innatention or shere bloody-mindedness that it was there in the first place.

[/ QUOTE ]

I did not express an opinion - I just asked a question which I thank you for answering.

I have been in the situation of a narrow channel - the Avon up to the city of Bristol, where a dinghy race was organised right across the channel. I came to a stop and could just hold my position in the current and so waited until the race was over. I was thanked by the race organiser over the radio.

However, had I been coming downstream with the flow behind me, I may have had reral troubles in being so polite.

I have also been in a narrow buoyed channel which I could not leave when a dinghy race was organised across it and there was chaos with boats coming around my stern and front and colliding with me when I was stopped and trying to control drift.

My view is that whenever possible, I would choose to stay away from the race and try and adjust things so as to avoid - if I can hold position then fine. On the other hand I do think its a bad idea to organise races across these channels and I do think that race organisers should be aware of the Colregs which are clear and in effect the race is breaching colregs.

In the former case in the River Avon, they probably had liitle choice but in the latter case they did.

I also once had a sailboard come up at high speed whilst I was doing about 1 knot and starting to drop my anchor in a 60 foot boat - he shouted at me for not changing course quoting the power give way to sail - I enjoyed his self imposed ducking.

I recently met a dinghy sailor - been sailing all his life - he was over 80 and had been on RYA committees and run sailing clubs etc. He maintained that power always gave way to sail in all circumstances even when the sailing boat was under power.

I have also on many occasions seen terrible regarding wash from MoBo's doing speed near to sailing boats.

So I am all for being polite, I am all for if possible at all avoiding the race or stopping to watch it but i just wish that more sailing people fully understood colregs.
 
Re: \'Sound Signals\'

Quote:

"I recently met a dinghy sailor - been sailing all his life - he was over 80 and had been on RYA committees and run sailing clubs etc. He maintained that power always gave way to sail in all circumstances even when the sailing boat was under
power".

----------------------------------------------------------------------

He was obviously: winding you up, lying about his background, or ill.
 
Re: \'Sound Signals\'

Although probably - read your troll ... sorry I mean post .... /forums/images/graemlins/wink.gif and you are supposed to be an ex-dinghy sailor ....
 
Re: \'Sound Signals\'

Ex Champion Dinghy sailor thank you /forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif


The actual draft of a laser quoted by the laser class site is 40 cm, a little over a foot.

Both the RS600 and 700/800 ?? have dagger boards and lifting rudders according to the class sites..........


All absolutely true, although Champion should be taken with a pinch of salt, local level /forums/images/graemlins/wink.gif

pm sent /forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif
 
Re: \'Sound Signals\'

The draft of a Laser is actually 90cm - and as they need a little bit of water underneath I'd say they need at least a meter to sail in.

I know the rudder is shorter and they could get away with 1/2m of water having the board up that far means they cannot gybe or tack as the top of the board interferes with the boom.

http://www.lasersailing.com/disp/uk/laser/vital-statistics

The RS classes use very similar rudders - they are around 60cm, the RS600, 700 and 800 all have daggerboards and will have the same problem as the laser.

Also Champion Dinghy Sailor, Ex RYA Dinghy Sailing Instructor and hold RYA certificates for bigger boats ... /forums/images/graemlins/wink.gif
I last gave tuition 3 weeks ago....
 
Re: \'Sound Signals\'

I have never doubted your sailing abilities ( surprised you never lift the rudder while underway, but petty preference), it was flaming that came out with some real pearlers /forums/images/graemlins/laugh.gif


May I just point out the difference in draft requirements between mobos and sailing craft apart from the cost of groundings

a sailing craft can pass through a narrow channel almost with out disturbing the level.

A power craft has to draw water from the front of the vessel in order to push the water to the rear for propulsion.

this suction causes the narrow channel to reduce in depth by as much as a foot ( read meter for Seine barges).

You can visually see this on a narrow river as the reeds dry preceding the vessel.

Or on a narrow channel such as Chichester marina channel, at low water even at tick over you can see the temporary fall in water level in front of your boat.

It is for this reason why a mobo needs deeper water and will expect to remain within the marked channel.
 
Re: \'Sound Signals\'

I have raised the rudder whilst underway - usually because I've hit the bottom trying to get out of your way..... /forums/images/graemlins/tongue.gif
 
Re: \'Sound Signals\'

Nope. Nothing about 4 short blasts in the col regs anywhere.

And it might be too easy to misinterpret 4 short as,

2 long and 2 short = I intend to overtake to Port

1 long, 1 short, 1 long, 1 short = I acknowledge your overtaking instructions

And in restricted vis, 1 long and 3 short is to do with towed vessels.

On the other hand,

1 long and 2 short in restricted vis (when not at anchor) = Not under command; Restricted in ability to manoeuvre; Constrained by draught; Sailing vessel; Fishing; Towing or Pushing.
 
Re: \'Sound Signals\'

[ QUOTE ]
Nope. Nothing about 4 short blasts in the col regs anywhere.



[/ QUOTE ]

Rule 35 paragraph k: "A pilot vessel when engaged on pilotage duty may in addition to the signals prescribed in paragraphs (a),(b) or (g) of this rule sound an identity signal consisting of four short blasts"

IRPCS . Have a look at page 25.
 
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