Sorry- Marina charges rant- all personal view of course.

[dralex]

We have been in a marina (company name ommitted) this year for the first time and just about scraped to afford it after deciding the convenience would be great with the new baby. It was worth it. We've just had the renewal quote and it's now about £460/metre inc. VAT annual charge, plus car parking, plus electricity. Now I know it's supply and demand blah blah, but how are normal people meant to afford that sort of charge. We are at the higher end of the earning scale and that is a huge amount of money to us. DOes it mean that marinas will soon be even more full of boats belonging to very rich people who never go out?

I don't mind going back to our swinging mooring because it's beautiful and a far nicer place to spend the night, but I do object to being priced out of a market that is getting more and more financially elite.

Try the survey- what do you think is a fair annual rate for marinas? This is all my opinion BTW.

 

[aluijten]

Hey, I pay 800 Euro per year for a 7 metres boat in Holland, what do I fill out in your questionnare?

Arno

 

[andyball]

Of course most of us will vote for the lowest "reasonable" charge.


But if marinas are full at £xxx per m, of course the ltd companies that own them are going to try to charge a bit more each year, aren't they?....bet the shareholders wouldn't have it any other way.

Limited space for marinas is the problem, presumably? the commercial rates in Holland are laughably low & in co-op/club marinas doubtless even less.

Having said that, we pay more than double now compared to previous 1/4 tide bucket yard & because of 24/7 access, pontoons that don't fall apart (well, hardly ever), no mysterious damage to boats in marina/yard & lack of hassle from objectionable owner it's worth every penny.

Given the choice would prefer to pay much less & prob have swing mooring, but tricky getting a wheelchair/crew onboard.

 

[sailorman]

we pay 215 parking inc .
lekkie 10 per month 10 amp supply & onl use winter months

 

[Birdseye]

I think you've just discovered that you aren't where you thought you were in the economic pecking order!

Marinas are like many other things in this crowded island, houses and roads in particular. You cant have lots of NIMBYs objecting to new building without land prices getting silly and house prices following. You cant have lots of NIMBYs picketing the new bypass and expect free running open roads. And the same rule applies to marinas. One has just been killed at Whitby (if memory serves me) and where they are allowed, they are often only viable because of the accompanying housing development..

Down in Poole, they now have tart traps stacked up in racks like goods in a diy, dry sailed only!

Yet at the same time that all this goes on, people are less inclined to join clubs, do their bit and help each other. Less DIY. People seem to want a pay for it service just as they pay (or their employer pays) for their car servicing. So they go to marinas and moan about the cost.

My club mooring costs me nothing other than a willingness to join in the work parties. If I wanted a pontoon, then the club next door has them at £800 per year (new pontoons) for a 35 ft boat plus a willingness to join in. Excellent un crowded sailing area.

You have the choice.

 

[dralex]

I'm sorry, but you don't really have much of a choice and tend to have to take what you can get. The only real choice is to get on as many waiting lists as possible and see which one comes up first. the only other choice is not to have a boat. I spent days ringing around when when we first moved here and before we bought a boat. There were no club moorings, no council moorings, no marina berths- no nothing. We found our swinging mooring by driving around and just asking people and eventually got lucky. I feel if we want ot sail, we have to take whatever mooring option is available and think ourselves lucky. I'm just glad we kept our swinging mooring.

As far as economic pecking order goes, like I said, we're at the higher end of the scale compared to a lot of people and very lucky in that respect- I just wonder what level of income you need. Looking at some of the boats in the marina, income goes up exponentially.

I have lots of enthusiasm for working in clubs etc and did lots of it while dinghy racing, It seems a far harder circle to break into for big boats. If you belong to a club and have a club mooring, then you're lucky or have been on the waiting list for a while.

 

[snowleopard]

Companies will always try to maximise their revenue. they are obliged to do so. marinas will keep on pushing up prices until they drive people away.

the only way to bring down marina prices is to reduce the number of people prepared to pay them. there are various ways this could happen-

a) people give up sailing so reducing demand
b) boat owners switch to moorings etc and put up with the inconvenience
c) more marinas are built increasing capacity beyond demand
d) cheap competitors like councils and clubs

there is no sign of a reduction in demand as boating becomes more popular

there are limited numbers of moorings and no space for any more

planning permission and capital for new marinas are hard to come by so growth in berths is slow compared with growth in demand

councils can't or won't build municipal marinas, whether for political or legal reasons so britain doesn't have the competition that e.g. france has.

in short- you're stuffed!

 

[dralex]

I'm aware of all of that and do accept it, but just wanted some rant therapy. Thanks for listening.

 

[cliff]

You missed out £00~99 and 100~199.

Marina charges are ridiculous but don't blame the marina operators blame the local council charging rates on the berths.
The fees are ofcourse compounded by profitering or should that be racketering on the part of the marina operators, after all where are you going to put you boat? There ain't enough moorings to go round = captive market so payup and pass round the vaseline

 

[tom52]

Have you tried to join a club in Poole lately. They are only interested in dinghy racers or friends/crew of existing larger racers. No room for new cruising members.

 

[Talbot]

You also left out the extra cash that Crown estates add to the annual charges. These are not insignificant. My organisation sends out the remonder with the charges split so that we all know just how much the Crown Estates are gouging us out of, whilst providing nothing.

 

[graham]

Re:Whats a tart trap?

/forums/images/graemlins/blush.gifBirdseye, I have to ask what is a" tart trap"?

Certainly sounds like a good idea,are they legal and is there a closed season,minimum size etc?

 

[Viking]

I used to be in Chichester marina so I know about raising charges.
But work and life took me to Norway. Living is not cheap here but berthing a boat complared to the UK is.
I know its no consulation to you. But my experince here was that here is most, if not all marinas seem to be owned by a club. They are not big marinas average 100/150 berths some a small 50 or less. (like the one on my picture)
Here I paid a joining fee. (I'm in Ålesund one of the bigger towns) the one payment fee was £2500. Annually, I pay a club sub's and maintamce fee of £200. For this I'm on a new pontoon/jetty. I have access legs each side of my boat, access to power and water, secuirty card to pontoon, free parking at the top of the jetty. New shower and toilet factitlies plus washing machine, Even he (in the snow we have three liveaboards boats). We have access to a free lifting crane with all the help and advice I need to look after the boat plus discount a the local chardlery. The marina has full tidal access.. The clubs main clubhouse has its own launch (the clubhouse is on its own island).
Whats the catch.... none really, only as a club we do our own marina maintenance. a couple of hours aweek in the summer, when you want to, its voluntary, if you dont want to do it you pay £50 a year. I now know as much about building and marina maintenance as MDL.
We dont get a lot of visitors, but we had a boat visiting from the your east coast ,who stay over and we got the skipper a crew to sailing farther north before his new crew joined him. Most visitors go straight into Ålesund harbour. He was wise enough to phone ahead.
Sorry its no help.

 

[trouville]

I was just thinking about the annual port charge,and hoped it will remain,payable!
Im in France where it was untill about 6 years ago better to pay for winter then spend the summer in differant ports,or leave her in an area that was not full in summer, one such as fos where industery turns the boat red or green,the mosquitoes bite (a lot) or the mistral--trammentain howls. Now even that regions full--all year round.
To many boat mostly used of a week or to a year. Perhaps Toulon has the best idea, you stay 4 month then leave for two.? I have my place further along the coast,by now we cant go away as much as we would like to as there is almost no where to stop even with the anchor.
In italy and Spain the prices are as in the Uk becoming to much.In France places for boats up to 17 meters are being replaced by ones for 30meter boats so i supose the mooring costs are increasing. Ports such as Cannes and Nice closed their waiting lists years ago and i was No18 they reconed onother 30year plus wait!!!!
Another possibility is to buy a trailor sailor??

 

[Birdseye]

I disagree. You have a choice, but the fact that you are talking of waiting lists suggests you are limiting yourself to the hotspots like the Solent area. I'm a member of three clubs. None have a waiting list including the one with pontoons. I'm sure that my area is not the only part of the UK like that.

I appreciate that you may want to base your boat on the south coast, but thats where the wealth of the country is and naturally marina fees rise to meet it.

Incidentally, some of our club members with caravans talk of overnight stops costing £15 or more. Given the much cheaper infrastructure of a caravan site, this suggests that marina prices are not as out of line as some people insist. Interesting to see the comment of a France based sailor - bit different to the usual story presumably because he is based in their equivalent to our south coast.

Anyway, I hope the rant has allowed you to reduce steam and relax for Christmas. Forget marinas over the festive season, enjoy yourself and return to the fray in the New Year. Happy Xmas

 

[FullCircle]

Just signing up for marina, 1700 quid for the whole year (therefore 170 quid/metre) and 25 quid for electric, all that for a 35 footer. Very pleasant location in River Crouch.
So I couldn't vote!

 

[dralex]

You are right, but my mum would never have forgiven us if we'd moved as far as SCotland, which was a viable choice. ALso looked at North Wales, so yes- we did choose to live on the South Coast.

Rant over.

We're lucky we can sail and it is part of our life.

Happy Christmas everyone. Family has arrived, so here's to a good one.

Alex

 

[mpprh]

Hi

I'm upset that my mooring costs are so expensive !

I've just received the renewal notice. It is Euro 2000 (say GBP 1300) for 10.5m. The price includes hauling out and retturn with 10 days dry storage once per year. The marina has all facilities and about 5000 moorings.

How do they do it ?

They are in Languedoc !

Peter

 

[bobfrost]

For what it's worth. Dover marina charges between £175 & £233 per metre per annum depending on tidal accessability. Easily accessible from London and much nicer sailing than in the Solent.

 

[JOHNOO]

If you want to save , move out of the UK. Anywhere!!!!