Something Nasty Happened on Windermere Today

[BSSOffice]

Any appliance burning hydrocarbons is going to produce some combination of CO and CO2. If it's properly set up, the proportion of CO will be very small, ...

Which is one of the important reasons for routine checking and regular servicing of appliances. However, from what we have learnt about such things at meetings with the gas safety groups, it is possible to produce for short periods, very high quantities of CO from a hob burner by placing and extra large pan on the ring, or a large kettle full of cold water.

We are told that the pan or the contents take the heat from the flame. This then makes the combustion of the gas less efficient, and the product of an inefficient combustion process is carbon monoxide.

A CO alarm in the cabin for when you are awake, and CO alarm by the bunk or bed head for when you are asleep (if you have overnight/unattended fuel burning heating appliances) is a good idea.

 

[Scillyboy]

CO detectors can be useful in other ways. I've one fitted in the pilot house with the cooker. Under certain conditions when motoring (at low speed, with a following wind, canopy up, and sides and back panels open) the outboard exhaust has been drawn in sufficiently to trigger the alarm. Even though this situation is unlikely to prove fatal, it could have unpleasant consequences.

 

[Lakesailor]

It seems to have been a faulty installation of a generator that has caused the CO build-up. Until the report it won't be clear if that was a leaking exhaust or fumes being drawn back inside.

 

[Greenheart]

...it is possible to produce for short periods, very high quantities of CO from a hob burner, by placing an extra large pan on the ring, or a large kettle full of cold water...the pan or the contents take the heat from the flame. This makes the combustion of the gas less efficient, and the product of an inefficient combustion process is carbon monoxide.

That's frightening news to me. Thanks for the warning! I wonder how warm a kettle or pan's contents must be, before the flame is hot enough to burn more cleanly?

 

[nigelmercier]

1 "Kidde 7DCOC 10 Years Carbon Monoxide Alarm Digital" DIY & Tools; £16.49 ...

Good plan, and that's under half price at the moment: http://www.amazon.co.uk/exec/obidos/ASIN/B00ABGEL62/dolcetto-21

 

[prv]

Good plan, and that's under half price at the moment: http://www.amazon.co.uk/exec/obidos/ASIN/B00ABGEL62/dolcetto-21

I think they must be doing a roaring trade today, I've ordered one too.

Pete

 

[BSSOffice]

That's frightening news to me. Thanks for the warning! I wonder how warm a kettle or pan's contents must be, before the flame is hot enough to burn more cleanly?

...or use moderate pans and reasonable size kettles and avoid the industrial size gear with domestic size LPG burners

 

[Rossynant]

If any carbon soot forms on the pot or flame is burning yellow - CO is produced; yellow glow in flame is incadescent radiation of soot particles - this mean incomplete combustion, so also CO must be somewhere around. As for kettle or pan - not only how cold or big, problem may appear when it's sitting too low on the burner, inside the flame so to say instead of above it. Even on badly adjusted burner gas will burn eventually with air from outside, given more space for it to enter flame.

 

[martyn78]

I think they must be doing a roaring trade today, I've ordered one too.

Pete

Me too.
There but for the grace of God.........

 

[Iliade]

...or use moderate pans and reasonable size kettles and avoid the industrial size gear with domestic size LPG burners

The pilot light on an unserviced water heater is quite enough to kill, even in a house, let alone a boat. CO is remarkably toxic: Just don't run any CO producing appliance long-term when people are asleep

 

[sarabande]

The pilot light on an unserviced water heater is quite enough to kill, even in a house, let alone a boat. CO is remarkably toxic: Just don't run any CO producing appliance long-term when people are asleep

Whilst I have been going on in the forum for years about the dangers of candle lights and oil lights on board, I cannot agree a pilot light is enough to kill. I think you need to specify a lot of environmental factors before that is true. I do, however, agree with your last sentence.

 

[Lakesailor]

Just a question which may be obvious if you buy a CO alarm. Should it be placed with the sensor low down?
Is CO heavy, so would the gas be lethal at floor or bunk level whilst OK at deckhead height?
Or is it usually a hot gas as it's just been the product of a flame and so rises?

 

[sailorman]

Just a question which may be obvious if you buy a CO alarm. Should it be placed with the sensor low down?
Is CO heavy, so would the gas be lethal at floor or bunk level whilst OK at deckhead height?
Or is it usually a hot gas as it's just been the product of a flame and so rises?

BSSOffice`s link stated, fitting 150m/m below the deckhead or in a sleeping area above nose height

 

[Lakesailor]

So that would be 6", in English, below the deckhead then. It must mix quite readily with the rest of the air I suppose.

 

[sailorman]

So that would be 6", in English, below the deckhead then. It must mix quite readily with the rest of the air I suppose.

152m/m is 6" so yours will be nearly 1/8" lower

 

[Greenheart]

Not sure that clarifies whether CO rises or sinks.

If, for argument's sake, I was to run a camping stove in a secure position on the bottom boards of a big dinghy, taking care to avoid fire-risks...and if I have a boom tent up, with a vent at each end near the top...and the transom flaps shut...I still wouldn't expect to be alive in the morning.

 

[AntarcticPilot]

Not sure that clarifies whether CO rises or sinks.

Neither; CO is about the same density as air. However, as it comes from a flame, and hot gas is less dense than cold gas, it may well tend to rise.