Some general questions ref a Skibsplast 700D

[ontheplane]

Hi all,

Went to see a boat today....

It's a Skibsplast 700D and I liked it but had some concerns which I hope someone can help me with.

My only experience of boats are outboard and outdrive - this is shaft drive so totally unknown quantity.

Here are my concerns:-

The engine is quoted as having 96hp and runs on a shaft. The engine is mounted in the middle of the boat.

Now, with an outboard / outdrive type boat I've always figured you need around 100hp per tonne to get "reasonable" performance. Reasonable for me is a boat that will get onto the plane relatively easily when full of people and kit. The boats I've had needed to be doing about 18kts to get on the plane and be doing 20+ before they were properly up and running.

This boat is rated to cruise at 16kts with a top end of 20kts.

I don't need a super-fast boat, but I would like to be able to cruise about on the plane getting somewhere rather than plodding at full displacement speeds. My concern is whether a boat that can only do 20kts (which will be measured with a couple of people and half a tank of fuel) be any good once you have 2 adults (and I am no skinny either) and two kids plus some kit or will it not plane at all.

Anyone will remember my old posts with the old Fairline I had - that was 1800kg and had 130hp and that wouldn't plane unless I stripped all the cruising kit out of it and it only had two on board.

The engine is a Yanmar 4 JH2-UTE - can this be chipped to get more power or is that it for that engine?

Another question about shafts, I am used to outdrives, so to turn in reverse, turn the helm and give it a burst of throttle - ahead the same thing - but how can you turn in reverse with a rudder? Does a boat like this with only single engine need a bow and sternthruster? (it has neither).

Also - for a mid-nineties boat, with no trailer it seems very pricey at nearly £16k?

Anyone had one of these, with this sort of power and how was it?

Thanks

 

[Jim@sea]

You can buy a Boat Test about the Skibsplast 700 D which details the difference between one fitted with the 96hp Volvo and one fitted with the Yanmar 135. I believe they say that the 96hp Volvo is underpowered.
I have just sold a Skibsplast 700 HT with the Yanmar. It would do 25kts, cruise at 20 and still be on the plane at 12/15 knots.
Trim Tabs are essential. By playing with the trim tabs at say 2500 revs you can watch the speed go up or down as you trim the boat perhaps getting another 10% in speed.
Before I bought (2012) I saw one in Plymouth and one in Lincoln. I missed one in Liverpool. I believe the one in Lincoln may still be for sale. And although it does not mention a Trailer it had one included which they said was an Indespention Trailer. This was a 96hp Volvo and suffered from, what I am told is normal, the engine hour meter had stopped working. It looked a nice boat but at the time overpriced £19,000 whereas the one in Liverpool had sold for around £15,000.
There was another one in the South for sale, which seemed to go off sale, then re-appeared having £2000 spent on Gel Coat Treatment.
The reason I paid too much for the one I bought was that it had service history and had spent most of its life sitting on the trailer, thus not needing cosmetic treatment to the hull.
I only sold it because it was too small to sleep on. I want a boat I can sit inside and look through the windows at the rain.
As a 7m Power Boat it was brilliant. At just over tick over, with the big propeller it was doing 7 knots ( around 1 gal per hour)
The build quality was superb. The downside is the engine is very enclosed. Because the impeller is virtually impossible to pull out, on the boats last service (with the previous owner) it was stated that the impeller was "serviceable" I had a Marine Engineer remove the entire pump to get at the Impeller and it was knackered. I also had a problem with krap in the fuel tank and if you buy the boat and send me a private message I can send you a photo of how I cut a section of the the bulkhead to get the tank out.
I dont regret having the Skibsplast I just regret paying too much and loosing £4000. And when I advertised it I had one reply. (the buyer)
Good Luck.
After I put my Skibsplast up for sale £20K took £16K. (with trailer) Someone who had bought one emailed me saying that they could only get 20Knots, and was my advert right. I replied that it appeared that boats with the 135 engine had the bigger 4 blade propeller and the 96 engine a smaller 3 blade propeller.
PS. On re-reading your posting you have a Yanmar, from the boat test I mentioned they did not say that these boats had a third engine Ie., A choic of 2 Yanmars. I know the engine in the one in Lincoln was incorrectly described as I inspected it. If it is a Yanmar I would ring a Yanmar dealer and ask. I think the Volvo is 2500 cc and the Yanmar 3500cc.

 

[Spi D]

You are looking at a Norwegian semidisplacement boat, made for use in nordic climate and conditions. Rated for 20 knots max. with 135 hp. and offered with engines from 90 hp.
http://www.skibsplast.no/index.php?m=modell&m_action=vis_modell&p_id=74&meny=5

Being semidisplacement your previous experience with planing hulls does not count 1:1 and trailering is different with that hull design.
http://www.boats24.com/img/objektbi...last-700-d-mit-yanmar-motor-4ff444397d89d.jpg

100 hp pr tonne certainly goes for a limited boat segment only.

Seakeeping of a boat like this is different and the centered engine provides a weight distribution that helps the balance,

Shaft designs steer by directing the water flowing by the rudder as opposed to sterndrive/outboard, where you direct the thrust by turning the prop. The shaft design needs speed through the water to steer, but manoeuvring also make use of the paddle wheel effect
http://content.answcdn.com/main/content/img/McGrawHill/boating/f0224-01.png

Depending on the direction of rotation this can be used in combination with fwd/reverse to turn the boat almost on the spot (ie. also goes for sterndrive and outboard).
BTW the paddle wheel effect is eliminated on duoprop or twin installations by using counter rotating props and twin shaft - these on the other hand have other steering properties.

 

[Jim@sea]

You still need to buy the Boat Report. If you PM me I can send you photos of the one I sold. Plus information.
Also the shaft drive is perfect. Made by Vetus I believe. My boat had around 390 hours and no play in the drive.
Engine service parts are cheap. Impeller a bit dear but it was twice the size of the one in my old boat.
Its a shame they dont do a 30ft Boat as I would go for one.
I had to cut a hole in the hull to fit a transducer the hull was quite thick.
Having found the boat test for the 135 Yanmar "0 - 20 in 7 secs.
Volvo 96hp 1800cc Yanmar 135 3500cc. At 20 knots 15 ltr hour. Cost at boat test (1994) £36,000 the Volvo one was £2000 cheaper.

 

[ontheplane]

Thanks Jim & Spi D,

The one I am looking at seems to be an 1800cc Yanmar rated at 100hp at the flywheel and 96 at the prop.

I mean there will always be a sea trial, to try and to test the performance, and I think we'd take all the family to make sure it performed ok. However it's very interesting that Jim was getting his to plane at 12/15knots where this one is rated to cruise at 16 - so a bit close to falling off the plane for my liking.

I think the proof of the pudding will be in the sea trial, but I'd be interested in any info you could let me have Jim and I'll send you a PM now.

Where can I buy the test you refer to? Do you have a copy? Does anyone know if this Yanmar can be "mapped" or "Chipped" or anything to make a bit more HP or is it already at the top of what it can do? I have had a look on Yanmar's site, but can't work out if the more powerful 4 cyl engines have much in the way of differences.

Thanks

Thanks for all the help.

 

[Spi D]

Remapping of course is possible on electronically managed engines only. This one might be all mechanical hence no chipping possible.
Forget repowering if you decide that 100 hp isn't enough. Get your preferred setup in the first place instead


On (semi) planing boats the laden weight means all when talking speed/performance/planing.
The by far easiest and cheapest performance increase lies in leaving all dead weight/unneeded gear behind.

 

[ontheplane]

Thanks spi d - I suppose in a roundabout way I was asking if this engine was mechanical or ecu managed.

I also agree about leaving kit behind - however if the boat was ok on sea trial and I could re-map it then that might make for a very nice cruiser

 

[tinkicker0]

It is very unlikely that a mid 1990s diesel will be anything other than purely mechanical.

 

[Jim@sea]

The boat test I bought was from www.ybw.com/copyshop I found it on their website paid by card and 5 mins later was reading it.
I think the boat you are interested in pre-dates the boat test as if it has a small Yanmar it is never mentioned.
Without Trim Tabs mine would not have got on the plane until later.
When the boat was 6 the second owner had them fitted. I had a copy of the bill. cost around £2000 as they had to cut a panel out of the fibreglass superstructure, to remove the tank so they could reach the bottom of the transom to put the nuts on the back of the bolts which they had pushed through the hull to fix the plates the Trim Tabs then they had to fibreglass the panel back in.
You should also be aware that as the boat you are looking at is older than the one I had,if the rubber exhaust pipe has not been changed you could end up being a RNLI statistic.
On my first trip the bilge was filling up with water. Yes the auto bilge pump was getting rid of it but there was a black residue.
Rubber Perishes. Where the exhaust pipe connects to the skin fitting the rubber had perished, ove a period of time the metal coil within the hose had rusted, and when sufficiently eaten away, split, and being a coil unleashed has seperated from the hose, so when the engine was running exhaust gases mixed with water were escaping from the perished hose and into the bilges.
The problem is that with the tank in front of it my arms were not long enough to reach it.
And I could not lift the tank out. Thats when (as Sherlock Homes) I realised that the tank must have been removed in order to fit the Trim Tabs after the boat was a few years old. So I cut the panel above the tank, removed the tank and cut the perished end off the pipe, and with there being plenty of slack in the remaining hose pushed another couple of inches onto the skin fitting and tightened the clips up. Job Done.
But when I inspected the boat before buying with the tank in the way you could not see the skin fitting.
Perhaps this is why people have surveys. Especially on 19 year old boats.

 

[Spi D]

Marketed in 1996 - and it is mechanical.

http://www.yanmar.com.au/media/35529/4jh2-ut(b)e.pdf

Those days ECU controlled diesels were the upcoming automotive standard, but as marine engines tend to stay a bit behind the technology. Seem to remember Volvo introduced the D3 in 2004.

 

[ontheplane]

Thanks guys. If I decide to make an offer and we get to sea trial I think I'll make sure we've plenty of people aboard to simulate a normal payload.