Some advice for a newbie please!

Thanks all so much for your replies. It helps!

Portofino - It had crossed my mind to do the same as you. My wife is Filipina but there are no accredited schools over there (that I'm aware of and happy to be corrected) otherwise I would have packed the good lady and my boy ofdf to see the family for a week and done the course there. My French is below par but my Spanish is decent(not for nautical terminology mind you) so I may look there for courses too. If i were to buy it would definitely be in the Med for the climate.

The quickest option is to do all the practical stuff in the UK. So much is about timing these days with COVID / BREXIT. Mind you, the call of sunshine and a family holiday to boot is alluring.

I've avidly watched pretty much all the Mendez videos, I just didn't put the name to the person (if that makes sense). very instructional! It's a great shout so thanks guys.

The Portishead option is good, but if I'm staying on the boat for the duration of the course then that becomes less relevant. I'll check out their website, and thank you.

Are the qualifications taken in France / Spain / wherever relevant to the whole of the Med, or can they be sniffy? AFAIK they are Med-wide if recognised by RYA irrelevant to where they were taken...or am I wrong on that?

Last but not least, I know this has been covered elsewhere but I'm struggling to find the thread. Where can I find the info regarding VAT and where a boat was purchased. I intend to buy in the Med, but I see adverts quoting VAT / Tax paid or unpaid and it is confusing... The difference on £250k is £50k (we can all do maths :) ) so it's not trivial.

Again, thanks so much for all the help you guys have given.
 
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The qualification bit is possibly a new hassle for RYA only if you spend more than 6 months when the U.K. leaves the EU .
There was a thread on this , the Greeks doing a Brit by the book = fine , € generation excerise.
I will find the post and link it .

It hinges around “ comity “
I have this in notes as I figured it would rear its head one day .

Comity



Its currently over looked at the mo in the EU , but your ( what ever flagged boat ) stays effectively permanently, more than 6 months then by the book they can now insist you follow local rules , so no change per se after 1/1/21 , just a question if a cattle prod from Brussels comes down forcing the Sp FR or what ever to apply it .

You can see why waaaaay back in 2005 I did the French permit d Mer .Already had the RYA tickets btw , this was as well as ,not instead of - because at the time the boat is / was not transient in the Cote d Azur .
The rag on the back stuck to a pole is irrelevant.


Greece is perfectly within its rights to impose its own rules on foreign flagged boats that are based in its waters.


This “ British flag = British rules “ debate regularly crops up. I think you need to read Uncloss 11 and other international agreements. The coastal State can impose whatever conditions it wants on vessels NOT on innocent passage. Portugal for instance requires pleasure craft there for more that 6 months to carry the same safety equipment as Portuguese registered ones although unlike a few years ago Portugal where foreign flagged boats that are deemed resident are required to comply with local rules on equipment. New Zealand also applies local rules to foreign boats that are resident, although like Portugal it exempts genuine visitors or boats on "innocent passage".

Innocent passage is an important concept in international law as that is when coastal states apply the principle of "comity" and respect the state flags rules. However once a boat starts cruising within the waters of the coastal state, and that time exceeds 6 months then “innocent passage “no longer applies and with it comity, although in practice most states do extend comity, at least for private leisure craft. That’s the current position within the Med.

Your VAT question,
Essentially in most markets , your target Spain , France and Italy private individuals have to register there boats and display a ref number , wear your U.K. car + DVLA hat when buying a car new or used .
Do you ask “ is it VAT paid “ when you set eyes on it .Nope .
If it’s new the dealer that sorts out the reg and if used it’s already registered.The fact it’s got a reg plate means all taxes inc VAT are accounted for .

Back to boats .So most EU , med boats have been through the VAT paid thing by a dealer to get the number .
Instead of a U.K. V5 issued by the DVLA , the broker for a med boat simply transfers your ownership details on the boaty equivalent of the U.K. car V5 .You can keep the original(s) .
In Italy it’s a little blue book , thats your VAT proof .
The none , or ex VAT could be commercial charter or owned by a company for such .Or not EU owned and subject to the 18 M export rule .
A 50 ft unless you can and want to go to Tunisia ( you might based in the Costas ? ) every 18 M , personally don’t bother = buy a regular VAT paid boat and stay in the EU with it ,
 
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Thanks Portofino...some interesting stuff there to chew over. The VAT thing is making more sense and the issue of buying in the UK and moving to the Med appeals less anyway with spec differences / transportation etc...
 
GravyStain said:
Thanks Portofino...some interesting stuff there to chew over. The VAT thing is making more sense and the issue of buying in the UK and moving to the Med appeals less anyway with spec differences / transportation etc...
Click to expand...

Now im gonna raise a few contentious issues here and i may be wrong on all of them but i think its they should be debated.

First of all i'll be honest i currenlty do not own a boat. I took the courses and then Covid hit us in March but....

I spent a large amount of cash on RYA courses for 2 reasons....the obvious one is to gain knowledge of seamanship and the other reason was to reduce my insurance premium.

So there are a few things here....

Im sure alot of people on this forum have never taken a seamanship course ever..... they bought a boat and had the adventure of learning as they go and probably had alot of fun that way. So do you need to spend all that money?

The other thing is that ive found that insurance premiums have skyrocketed and now protect the value of the boat instead of the person in charge ot it. Similar to car insurance. I could be wrong and i guess boat premiums insurance could be debated for hours?

However, After i had completed my courses and decided to buy a boat in the USA and i discovered that i didnt even need them. The USA does not require any seamanship qualifications. RYA is acknowledged but its not essential.

So just figure out what you require to get on the water and then you can gain knowledge by either 'doing it' or then topping up courses over time

Also, as far as VAT is concerned there are some tax breaks in and around Europe in places like Malta...... search for ssduca on this forum for advice


(y)
 
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Interesting stuff there Shane. I'm pretty sure I wouldn't want to jump on a 45-50ft boat without any knowledge of that type of craft... As well as RYA courses I would hope that the boat purchased could come with some hand-holding from the previous owner as a part of a deal. It's a very quick shortcut to understanding a whole new set of systems / engines etc...

Is that the norm in the boat market or are you thrown a set of keys and waved off? Be interesting to hear the thoughts of the guys on here.
 
GravyStain said:
Interesting stuff there Shane. I'm pretty sure I wouldn't want to jump on a 45-50ft boat without any knowledge of that type of craft... As well as RYA courses I would hope that the boat purchased could come with some hand-holding from the previous owner as a part of a deal. It's a very quick shortcut to understanding a whole new set of systems / engines etc...

Is that the norm in the boat market or are you thrown a set of keys and waved off? Be interesting to hear the thoughts of the guys on here.
Click to expand...

With new boats like Sunseeker you are given a few days on the water with an instructor to show you the boats systems during the commissioning etc

But i can buy a boat on eBay today and be on the water this afternoon with no training whatsoever
 
GravyStain said:
Interesting stuff there Shane. I'm pretty sure I wouldn't want to jump on a 45-50ft boat without any knowledge of that type of craft... As well as RYA courses I would hope that the boat purchased could come with some hand-holding from the previous owner as a part of a deal. It's a very quick shortcut to understanding a whole new set of systems / engines etc...

Is that the norm in the boat market or are you thrown a set of keys and waved off? Be interesting to hear the thoughts of the guys on here.
Click to expand...
You might want to PM @Chris H who bought a Pershing 52 with surface drives as his first boat... :) Kudos.

Own boat training is essential in my view.
 
Scala - Agreed.

I won't be buying a new boat...Pockets aren't that deep for what I'm after. I'd rather have a 10 to 15 year old 45-50 footer than a new 32 footer. Nowt wrong with 32ft boats, I just prefer a bit more space.
 
ShaneAtSea said:
With new boats like Sunseeker you are given a few days on the water with an instructor to show you the boats systems during the commissioning etc

But i can buy a boat on eBay today and be on the water this afternoon with no training whatsoever
Click to expand...
Yeh my first mobo was a Sunseeker and they organised everything inc 3 days of tuition .
I understand they still do , well @ least in the SoF .
Also carried on with maintenance too .That I think , the history file help it sell with in a week of its listing .
Pretty turn key end to end experience tbh .

You need an appropriate License though is most EU states .France do exempt under a certain Hp say 6 hp for day tripper hire .
Same with the current Itama , the broker organised over a lunch a skipper to assist on the Del trip .
We just flew into Naples and jumped on a new to me boat to take it up to Cannes in the winter .
This lad stayed with the boat a few days before to get it ready / provision etc .
By the end of the trip I knew how everything worked .

So while you do hear stories of folks just thrown the keys and ‘ it’s on quay A berth 1 , goodbye “ most sort Something out .
 
Portofino said:
Yeh my first mobo was a Sunseeker and they organised everything inc 3 days of tuition .
I understand they still do , well @ least in the SoF .
Also carried on with maintenance too .That I think , the history file help it sell with in a week of its listing .
Pretty turn key end to end experience tbh .

You need an appropriate License though is most EU states .France do exempt under a certain Hp say 6 hp for day tripper hire .
Same with the current Itama , the broker organised over a lunch a skipper to assist on the Del trip .
We just flew into Naples and jumped on a new to me boat to take it up to Cannes in the winter .
This lad stayed with the boat a few days before to get it ready / provision etc .
By the end of the trip I knew how everything worked .

So while you do hear stories of folks just thrown the keys and ‘ it’s on quay A berth 1 , goodbye “ most sort Something out .
Click to expand...

Here's a great boating anecdote from Louis CK....the language is a bit fruity so if your easily offended then dont listen to it

But its very funny...:p


 
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Following on from the question of where to do a course... Am I better getting a qualification local to the EU, or will the RYA stuff (day / Coastal skipper etc..) cover any EU requirements going forward?

Your thoughts please gang, and many thanks.
 
Also, FWIW if you want the ICC before you buy your boat then try to find a trainer that uses something a bit similar as a training vessel.

Alternatively, if you buy the boat first, then organise your training immediately on handover. Own-boat training kills several birds with the one stone. Qualifications for you, your partner, your kids. Directly relevent experience. Confidence building. You can work up your operational practices at the same time. Cheaper per head (you pay for the trainer). No sharing of boat or course with other of unknown skill. Can do the course in your preferred cruising grounds so you learn the local waters. Etc.
 
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Wife and I did our day skipper course, 4 days, in France with Ocean pro, great company and English speaking, after the 4 days training we had 30 mins tuition from from the broker we bought the boat through and that was it.
 
While looking around in Sneek in Friesland over the summer the cruising companies there are offering 40ft+ boats for hire without any training , while it is only around the canals and speed is quite limited it's still a large boat to just jump into cold.
I was taking my wife and some friends out for a day in a small boat to see how they got on with it, weather was foul and even the meeren were getting a bit of a chop on but everyone enjoyed themselves and made the decision to a) hire a boat next summer, and b) the wife is not adverse to getting our own small cruiser.
The boat we picked out for next summer is a 43ft 4 berth Thomasz Tristan BC 40 OK, something like this:
mini-0048.jpg
 
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