Somali pirates

I think that the economics of shipping probably have quite a significant effect here, where ship owners are always looking for ways to cut costs, especially manning costs.

I visited a container ship in the harbour here today - 17,000 tonnes deadweight, and only 16 crew, including the 4 engine room staff (2 engineers and 2 oilers).
The Emma Maersk is one of the largest container ships in the world (she can carry 12,000 20' TEU containers), and has (I think) only a few more crew than the one I saw today.
Emma would have size and speed on her side as a deterrent to pirates - have you seen the freeboard on these huge ships?

The 'little' (relatively) ship I visited has 'low' freeboard (compared to Emma) - it would be relatively easy for a gang of pirates to sling their grappling hooks over the rails on a dark night - especially as they know that the odds of anybody seeing them are very low, as the ship manning levels are often barely above the minimum required by the Safe Manning Document.
And as for a little (relatively) loaded tanker, proceeding at a relatively sedate speed - they could almost step on board from a 'fishing boat'. Easy pickings. Especially as they know that the cargo is worth millions of US$.

By way of contrast, a typical general cargo ship of 10,000 tonnes deadweight in the 50's might have had well over 60 crew on board - my Dad was on one of these vessels going through the South China Seas (or maybe Malacca Straits) and he told me about how they had fire teams on constant watch on deck with fire hoses ready when passing through pirate infested waters. Modern day ships just do not have the man power to do this, and it would be unreasonable to expect the operating crew to do this in addition to their normal jobs on the ship.

Maybe the vessels' P & I Clubs will now start insisting on additional armed guards (working shifts around the clock?) being carried on board ships running the gauntlet of the Somali pirates - but this then leads to further possible complications re lifeboat and liferaft capacity being exceeded..... 3 men per shift would not be unreasonable (port, starboard and stern?), and if they do 4 hours on, 8 off then that is another 9 crew members on the list. They would still need 6 extra crew if they just did 'only' 6 hours on and 6 off at night.
 
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Isn’t just amazing how the British and US government can invade other country in the name of human right , patrol the seas and ocean of the world to stop drug trafficking , intimidate lawful people from cruising in the name of border control , but can’t patrol and stop a bunch of thieving kidnapping thugs in a small sea area compared with the world ocean , could it be because there isn’t any oil or other commentary that is of any valve to them ? ?

Spot on. I honestly believe that this could be stopped very quickly by combined international forces, but as you say, whats in it for us (western economies). And on a seperate point, the only racism I see here is the assumption that a white western couple in a small yacht are fair game. Let's hope the Chandlers regain their liberty soon.
 
I'm surprised all of you see this as a big problem. Sure the Pirates off Somalia are the most active in the world. But seriously, how many people have they got hostage at the moment? I'd bet it's a pretty low number all in all considering the amount of shipping off the coast. I wonder how many people are held hostage in Iraq, or Afghanistan at the moment.

The reason the Somalis are so successful is because they are humane about what they do. Sure they hold hostages, but those they take are well treated and well fed and once the money has been payed they go free. They are not spilling blood so there is no incentive for western governments to go blowing them out of the water, especially as the ransoms are met by private companies paying out of their own insurance.

The only way to really stop it is with a massive naval presence. Britain hasn't had a navy big enough for that sort of task since the 1940's which basically means no one, not even the yanks, have the resources now.

Basically all things considered the piracy problem is an inconvenience and until people start getting killed by the Somalis then any real action taken against them will be slow in coming.
 
I'm surprised all of you see this as a big problem. Sure the Pirates off Somalia are the most active in the world. But seriously, how many people have they got hostage at the moment? I'd bet it's a pretty low number all in all considering the amount of shipping off the coast. I wonder how many people are held hostage in Iraq, or Afghanistan at the moment.

The reason the Somalis are so successful is because they are humane about what they do. Sure they hold hostages, but those they take are well treated and well fed and once the money has been payed they go free. They are not spilling blood so there is no incentive for western governments to go blowing them out of the water, especially as the ransoms are met by private companies paying out of their own insurance.

The only way to really stop it is with a massive naval presence. Britain hasn't had a navy big enough for that sort of task since the 1940's which basically means no one, not even the yanks, have the resources now.

Basically all things considered the piracy problem is an inconvenience and until people start getting killed by the Somalis then any real action taken against them will be slow in coming.

Excuse me for being stupid but what exactly is humane about kidnapping. Perhaps being boarded by the UKBA or having to report your movements to eborders could be considered an inconvenience. But being kidnapped at gunpoint, being held against you're will, and in a moment losing everything you've worked for and dreamed of.....????. There is nothing humane about one human being abusing another.
 
That's it! Drug the captured pirates. Once asleep insert epirbs up them (big ones). Then release them in exchange for the Chandlers. Falmouth coast guard will then be able to tell yachtsman where the pirates are. Job done. Just don't fall in with an Epirb in your pocket.
 
The only way to really stop it is with a massive naval presence.
Why spend the money trying to force people who have virtually no other way of making a living from doing what they're doing. Better off helping Somalia rebuild, including having its own navy and coastguard so that its territorial waters are its own and fishermen can fish.
 
Seems the ransom is no down to £100k, better than £4m.

As far as lone yachts go, most tend to travel these waters in small convoys. The Chandlers were very unlucky that the pirates had just 'lost' a container ship they had been chasing - the Chandlers were in the wrong place at the wrong time. South of the pirate normal operating area.

2000+ yachts a year pass up and down the Red Sea through these waters and 1 or 2 get captured, its still safer than walking around many major cities in the UK or elsewhere. Not nice to get caught but...........

We still plan to head south this way with our kids, as its still safer than the Caribbean these days with muggings ashore and armed robbery aboard yachts at anchor, etc.
 
I take offence at your assumption that I am racist; It makes no difference what race, colour or creed a pirate is, it is still an offence by who ever commits it.

But it doesn't carry the death penalty, and we cannot - any more - swan round the world executing people who annoy us, no matter how great the provocation.

Might I suggest that as you seem so pro-Somali and support what they are doing then you offer yourself and you’re family up as exchange hostages for the Chandler’s …are you going to? Let us all know how you get on!

I find it interesting that you chose to write "pro-Somali" and not "pro-pirate" in that little bit of Daily Mailism. Not all Somalis are pirates, you know, and there is a word for people who assume otherwise.
 
Might I suggest that as you seem so pro-Somali and support what they are doing then you offer yourself and you’re family up as exchange hostages for the Chandler’s …are you going to? Let us all know how you get on!
I'll do that if you take you and your family and do an exchange with that of a Somali fisherman. Be sure to let us know how you get on too!
 
The pirates skiffs seem to have a fairly identifiable form, it would be harsh, but effective to simply scoot down the coast in helicopters and destroy anything resembling one.

It'd take out a lot of fishing boats, true, but traditionally styled fishing boats would be left alone, since they're probably not suitable for attacking a ship - doubt they'd have the speed, they need to do 15+ knots don't forget.
 
The pirates skiffs seem to have a fairly identifiable form, it would be harsh, but effective to simply scoot down the coast in helicopters and destroy anything resembling one.

It'd take out a lot of fishing boats, true, but traditionally styled fishing boats would be left alone, since they're probably not suitable for attacking a ship - doubt they'd have the speed, they need to do 15+ knots don't forget.

Have you read any of the above?
 
The pirates skiffs seem to have a fairly identifiable form, it would be harsh, but effective to simply scoot down the coast in helicopters and destroy anything resembling one.

It'd take out a lot of fishing boats, true, but traditionally styled fishing boats would be left alone, since they're probably not suitable for attacking a ship - doubt they'd have the speed, they need to do 15+ knots don't forget.

Face facts, the world has changed since the 18th century; Britain is no longer a superpower and responding to guerrilla tactics either ashore or afloat through brute force simply does not work. You don't need to be moving at all to pump several RPG rounds into the wheelhouse of a passing ship. Remember these guys have little or nothing at all to loose and a lot to gain. All you will do ( apart from completely trashing international law ) is escalate the whole scenario to a higher level.

Remember its all about the money these days. Sure, you'd like our Navy to be out there spending billions to protect perhaps 50 UK flagged vessels off on sailing jollies. I'm not sure how the rest of the 70 million people in this country would respond to that budget, certainly I wouldn't be keen! Actually it is probably easier, safer and cheaper in the long run to draw out negotiations with the pirates and eventually settle for some small amount to procure the release of the occasional hostage. Certainly £100 000 to release the current captives pales into insignificance in comparison to running a fleet of fast patrol vessels, helicopters, aircraft and all the associated support logistics. Actually paying money via a cash drop to a bunch of pirates is probably more effective at getting money 'to the coalface' than subsidising some corrupt government.

A few low key, low cost commando style raids or high seas captures might help. Occasionally capturing one or two of the pirate ringleaders and 'keeping them in reserve' to trade for hostages seems a good plan.

Task force 150 and the entry in wikipedia on siezed ships makes interesting reading ( 2 UK vessels in the past 3 years )
 
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"You don't need to be moving at all to pump several RPG rounds into the wheelhouse of a passing ship."
You do have to get in the path of it though which requires movement.

Just to be clear, I mean destroying the boats while they are ashore not faffing around finding them in the ocean and not specifically trying to kill anyone. I don't think that's actually been suggested above.
 
Seems the ransom is no down to £100k, better than £4m.

As far as lone yachts go, most tend to travel these waters in small convoys. The Chandlers were very unlucky that the pirates had just 'lost' a container ship they had been chasing - the Chandlers were in the wrong place at the wrong time. South of the pirate normal operating area.

2000+ yachts a year pass up and down the Red Sea through these waters and 1 or 2 get captured, its still safer than walking around many major cities in the UK or elsewhere. Not nice to get caught but...........

We still plan to head south this way with our kids, as its still safer than the Caribbean these days with muggings ashore and armed robbery aboard yachts at anchor, etc.

If you come out of it (capture etc) ok I can see future benefits.

Book. Serialisation in News of the World. After dinner speaking etc. Clifford whasit could help here.

How in fact do you contact these pirates ?
 
If you come out of it (capture etc) ok I can see future benefits.

Book. Serialisation in News of the World. After dinner speaking etc. Clifford whasit could help here.

How in fact do you contact these pirates ?

:) Lets see. Arrange a 'pirate siezure' and subsequent payoff by government or insurers to pirates. Claim insurance on boat ( which was stripped of anything useful beforehand of course ), get into after dinner speaking or piracy consulting.

Wonder how long it will be before someone is found to have declared a manifest of some super valuable cargo to their insurers, got pirated, claimed and then find that the boat was in ballast or something.

Just my cynical side coming out again :)
 
:) Lets see. Arrange a 'pirate siezure' and subsequent payoff by government or insurers to pirates. Claim insurance on boat ( which was stripped of anything useful beforehand of course ), get into after dinner speaking or piracy consulting.

Wonder how long it will be before someone is found to have declared a manifest of some super valuable cargo to their insurers, got pirated, claimed and then find that the boat was in ballast or something.

Just my cynical side coming out again :)

It goes on all the time in commerical shipping. An old friend of mine worked for a big city shipping company some years ago and claimed; A. They knew which ships wouldn't make it to destination port before they had even departed. Or B which ones weren't carring the cargo they were registered as carrying. All a big insurance fiddle. They don't give a toss about the crews. If a few go down it adds credence to the story. Obviously one mustn't generalise. There must be a few good shipping co's out there.
 
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No one is suggesting that every sq mile should be patrol we all know if not possible but Somali coast line is 1800 miles long and only a small part of the coast line is available to these thugs come kidnappers lets not make this some keen of romantic film set by calling them Pirates .and at the same time they could help to put a end to illegal fishing going on in Somali waters and help the Somali people at the same time

I’m not for one moment suggesting they we should go in there guns blazing let us not forget there are two innocent people in the middle of all this plus crews from other shipping line and what the British Gov should be doing now is trying to get them out rather then sounding like African parrots with comments like “ the British Government
Will not make any substantive concessions to hostage-takers, and that includes the payment of ransom" well that’s all well and good for then sitting in there warm offices in white hall working out what expenses they can claim for next . And what stupid laws they can come up with next . … E Border … that a joke on it own . But let not go there here .

As for the comment “ the hostage are well treated and well fed and no one as been harmed yet “are there now ? I don’t think the Chandler or the other hostage would quite agree with you there .and have you forgoton about the French skipper ,
So I understand there now talk of them being passed on to some other group . And it only a matter of time before someone will get hurt .
 
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