Somali pirates

orbister said:
I think you'll find that there's a word for sinking ships and killing their crews just for being in a particular area of international waters. Piracy. And murder. Two words.



And look how successful the navies of the world have been at ending drug smuggling, eh?

The best way to stop the piracy happening is to make not-being-a-pirate attractive. Sure, that may include having some ships which can fight back, but supporting the rebuilding of Somalia and ending the illegal fishing and dumping in Somali waters would probably be much more effective.
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Hey Folks - a Guardian reader!

The theory seems to be that if anyone breaks the law in a 3rd world country we should be happy to have our taxes increased and our wealth given away to persuade them not to do so. Or more efficiently, just invite them here to live off social services.

The best way to stop piracy is the way we did it before - string them up. On the spot.
 
Hey a Daily Mail reader.

No one is saying what the Pirates, sorry theiving, hijacking scum are doing is right. What is at question is the method of stopping it. Drawn and quartering, no matter how attractive is just not going to happen. Bombing the ****e out of their coastline is not going to happen. Invasion is not going to happen. And as for the West not getting involved wasn't that were the USA went in, cocked it up and then had to flee with their tails between their legs? Oh and just incase you don't believe me a film was made about it called Black Hawk Down. This is a Country run by Warlords. Life is cheap, like a lot of Countries in the world. Death is right there all the time be it infant mortality, war, gangs or disease. Which might have something to do with why half the world wants to come here. A country in which for them life is easy and not because it's handed to them on a plate but because from where they've come from this is Nivarna, a walk in the park. I'm sick of hearing people harping on about how **** it is here in the UK because of all these immigrants. If they didn't come who would harvest the fruit, veg and salad? The growers of which have to let tonnes rot on the plants because there isn't enough immigrant workers allowed in to pick it. While what you call English kids are standing around drinking cans of Tenants Super at 10am. Waiting for their dole.
Read something that's going to inform you about what's actually going on, rather than a selfserving rag designed to fill you full of paronia and hate.

Lots of love Me
 
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wotayottie said:
The theory seems to be that if anyone breaks the law in a 3rd world country we should be happy to have our taxes increased and our wealth given away to persuade them not to do so. Or more efficiently, just invite them here to live off social services.
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Oh, a Mail reader. I'd better keep it simple then.

I'll tell you who the real freeloaders are in this situation - the foreign fishing fleets that have stripped Somalia's waters of upward of $300 million worth of fish and those that have dumped toxic waste off the Somali coast to avoid processing costs. That's who should be paying for a decent solution to this situation and allowing Somalis to gain a legitimate livelihood.
 
Graememcmurhcie said:
Hey a Daily Mail reader.
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No way! :-)

In reality you are right - nothing much is going to be done about the piracy not least because the days when we had the self belief to be effective in such matters are long behind us. So we will wring our hands and complain. But one thing is for sure - "rebuilding Somalia" is never going to be more attractive to the pirates than the largely risk free returns of millions per ship from piracy. Who wants to farm fields for a dollar a day when they can wave an RPG for $1000 per day?

You're making wrong assumptions about me. As I see it, social services and immigration have little to do with foreign labour and picking vegetables. Personally, I'm all for more foreign workers in the UK when they have jobs to fill. Keeps labour rates competitive and as the Poles demonstrated, the employer tends to get more work for his money.No jobs - they can go home.

But immigration is a different thing. Immigrants need to buy into being British, assimilate, adopt the culture such as it is.
 
As an aside I'm reminded of the Icelanders and the Cod War in all this. They were desperate enough to enforce no go zones to foreign vessels and to damage trawl nets in the process, so lord knows what pressure a Somali ex-fisherman trying to feed his family is under.
 
Just one other thing if you really lived in a hell hole of a place, where the grimreaper could pop in from next door on his way further down the street to collect a few of your friends. Would you think I'll just stay here and await my turn? Or would you try and get you and your family to a better place? Not a hard one is it.
Obviously if us poor people in the West who haven't got a penny to scatch our asses with because of the banking fiasco (no-one was complaining when they where making a mint) outrageous taxes (18% cap gains whoop de doop) a **** goverment ( it was much better under the torries wasn't it? Why did Labour get in again?) Could help to make life better in their own countries maybe they wouldn't want to come here. Unless they like the weather.
 
But immigration is a different thing. Immigrants need to buy into being British, assimilate, adopt the culture such as it is.[/QUOTE]


Sadly I think that option was destroyed years ago. The sort of place most of the immigrants end up is not condusive to intergration. I fear for the future of the uk as much as you. I have kids, who will one day have kids. One can only try to be open minded. I admit as I get older it gets harder.

Sorry I digress. God I'm depressed now.
 
Graememcmurhcie said:
Sadly I think that option was destroyed years ago. The sort of place most of the immigrants end up is not condusive to intergration. I fear for the future of the uk as much as you. I have kids, who will one day have kids. One can only try to be open minded. I admit as I get older it gets harder.

Sorry I digress. God I'm depressed now.
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We are digressing, but as someone who has lived in inner city Birmingham and more latterly Bradford, I think it's far too easy to imagine that the inner cities there are not integrated in some way. Sure, most of the residents aren't sailing at weekends or on the golf course, but most get on with their lives as hardworking and peaceful people. And the assimilation of culture does happen, but you possibly just don't see it because it's in ways you wouldn't expect. The Pakistani butchers of Bradford will soon be advertising halal turkeys in time for Xmas, and one (professed Muslim!) friend of mine will probably go out and get more hammered at weekends than he normally does as we get into the holiday season.
 
What's the butchers name? We used to supply 300 Hallal slaughtered sheep everyday to Bradford, Illford and Newcastle. Happy days (not for the sheep obviously). And what you say is true.

Right, so what are we going to do about these Bushwhackers off Somalia then?
 
Graememcmurhcie said:
Right, so what are we going to do about these Bushwhackers off Somalia then?
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Oh, yeah, the pirates

What's needed? International coalition assistance to create a Somali navy and coastguard and suitable ports with naval help in the meantime to secure their waters against foreign trawlers and waste dumpers, plus some assistance to help rebuild the Somali fishing industry.

Who should pay? The owners/government of any fishing or waste dumping vessel who ever played a part in either of those activities off the Somali coast.
 
orbister said:
Piracy and kidnapping do not, in civilised countries, carry the death penalty. QUOTE]


The death penalty for piracy was abolished in 1998.

It's a comforting thought that we only became civilised as recently as 11 years ago. I was under the impression that was when civilisation ended.
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Everytime I go up the Medina I get robbed. Cowes Yacht Haven £26 for a 30 foot yacht end of Oct. I think they were charging me more because I was rafted next to an RM1050 (wolf whistle effect).

That maps a bit scary. A mate of mine sailed through the Red sea a few years back and said it was bad there but the Caribean was worse and the yachts used to travelling in groups for safety. Not my idea of freedom. Might have to take up flying, can't be much more expensive after all.

The English one though come on I'd be surprised if there hadn't been one up there?
 
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Algol said:
Oh, a Mail reader. I'd better keep it simple then.

I'll tell you who the real freeloaders are in this situation - the foreign fishing fleets that have stripped Somalia's waters of upward of $300 million worth of fish and those that have dumped toxic waste off the Somali coast to avoid processing costs. That's who should be paying for a decent solution to this situation and allowing Somalis to gain a legitimate livelihood.
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Ahh an Independent reader! no chance of changing a closed mind. but for the rest of you:-

Anyway Somali pirates are pirates because thats what pays them the most dosh, they know that in the end the west will payup, the is no such thing as a legitimate livelihood in that area DOING ANYTHING will be harder than robbery and piracy, I take it that legitimate includes paying some taxes, GET A LIFE! it wont happen.

Fish dont belong to Somalia so whats that all about? - the pirates are not even equipped for fishing AND since when did territorial waters extend 1000KM offshore? an open skiff 1000Km offshore? oh right he was out for long weekend then with a ladder, grapnel, RPG and AK47. . . . with no stores or fuel - perhaps he has a TARDIS to save time. . .

Please GO THERE AND SEE as have I - there is no government there is no way on earth a yob in Somallia could make a living fishing he wouldnt know how to start - threatening a crew with a gun, now your talking, he knows about terrorising people, learned that in one of the many civil wars, it's far easier and far more profitable - IT'S HIS WAY OF LIFE. Changing the current state of affairs in Somalia will take billions of pounds and take a century or two, even then it may not change for the better - just be a bit different, the pirates will have better equipment funded by the UN.

Piracy is Thuggery and there is no excuse for it and the rules of engagement should reflect that, anyone that commits piracy on the high seas should expect to be fired upon with no quarter given. Julius Ceasar had the right idea.
 
Piracy is Thuggery and there is no excuse for it and the rules of engagement should reflect that, anyone that commits piracy on the high seas should expect to be fired upon with no quarter given. Julius Ceasar had the right idea.[/QUOTE]

Wasn't he pirated by the Hawk or Falcon while in exile from Rome? If I remember right he was told he'd be held for ransome. When told the amount Julius said it wasn't enough and demanded they ask for more. The ransome was duly paid by Mr and Mrs Caeser and upon leaving the pirates he said he would kill everyone of them before dawn. He was by all accounts a bit camp so this obviously cracked them all up. The Pirates had a big knees up, lots of dodgy booze and eventually all passed out ratted. While they'd been revelling in it Julius had sneaked back with a ship load of centurians and slaughtered the lot. Except the leaders. I can't remember how he dispatched them but Iknow it wasn't a nice way to go.

I did a lot of research into Pirates a few years ago. Even got into a special room in Greenwich and handled some very old books. I wanted to make a TV documentary about the reality of being a pirate. Might resurrect it. It was nothing like the Hollywood tripe. It seems they are far more successful to day.

Sorry I digress again.
 
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