Solid kicker/boom strut?

Kukri

Kukri

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The red monster came without either a rigid boom strut or a rigid gallows.

With a 510 sq ft mainsail and boom to match I am not happy about the weight hanging off the topping lift "24/7/365", and I was thinking of a rigid gallows ahead of the cockpit.

Before I go ahead with this, should I be saving my pennies for a rigid kicker instead, and would that mean a new boom?
 
Even a thin topping lift easily take the weight but an advantage of solid vang over a gallows is that you will never accident drop the boom someone.
 
One advantage of a solid strut is that there is one less thing to go wrong during reefing, the boom will not drop to the deck or fall far enough to touch the lifelines or whatever.
With a full crew or a smaller boat, it can reove the need to touch the topping lift while putting a reef in or shaking it out. But this means a certain amount of work in raising the boom from the lowest position to the sailing position.
Spring loaded or gas strut vangs are a step further, which balance the weight of the boom in theory but may mean something extra to pull against with the sheet. IMHO nice if it (almost) exactly balances, other wise a bit naff.

You are unlikely to need a new boom, but the fittings on boom and mast might need changing to take thrust. The vang fitting on our mast is welded on....
A rigid boom gallows or crutch can save a lot of gooseneck wear on the mooring or while motoring.
 
I love our rod-kicker, but it doesn't negate the need to tie the boom securely to stop it flapping when the main isn't up. We have a temporary gallows which takes longer to bring up from below than to install on the mizzen. If i had to choose gallows or rod-kicker, I'd choose rod-kicker.
 
Kukri, in my opinion a rod kicker will be a significant advantage on a vessel such as yours.

You will need to fit mast and boom attachment brackets, and may also need a new gooseneck.

Then there is choosing and specifying the loads for the strut, for which you'll need a good idea of the weights, heights, etc. Not forgetting that the downward inertial forces can sharply increase when centre-sheeting the boom (with sail dropped) motoring or sailing under genny alone in a big sea. I have a strut kicker, but also a topping lift for use in this eventuality. I also find an easy to attach port/stbd side-to-side restraint system useful.

Edit: useful link
http://www.seldenmast.com/en/products/rigid_vangs_-_rodkickers/rodkicker_rigid_vang.html
 
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Our Sigma, which we raced a lot, had a solid rod kicker, however the top end was a car which ran back and forward on a length of X track screwed below the boom with a powerful tackle to control it forward or back ending in the cockpit. More or less like a shorter mainsheet traveller. It was very easy to use, powerful, strong, positive and avoided any need for a topping lift. The boat was late seventies, it was a special mod, but within the OD rules and I think it came from IYE but most of the bits are available from Harken, Lewmar or even Barton, the rod itself was a about 5 feet of heavy alloy tube with sleeved eyes at each end. I started to make up similar for our current Moody but in the end bought a Boomstrut.
 
Kukri said:
The red monster came without either a rigid boom strut or a rigid gallows.

With a 510 sq ft mainsail and boom to match I am not happy about the weight hanging off the topping lift "24/7/365", and I was thinking of a rigid gallows ahead of the cockpit.

Before I go ahead with this, should I be saving my pennies for a rigid kicker instead, and would that mean a new boom?
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I like the sound of those gallows esp if shorthanded and particularly if people have to go forward to reef.
 
Quandary said:
Our Sigma, which we raced a lot, had a solid rod kicker, however the top end was a car which ran back and forward on a length of X track screwed below the boom with a powerful tackle to control it forward or back ending in the cockpit. More or less like a shorter mainsheet traveller. It was very easy to use, powerful, strong, positive and avoided any need for a topping lift. The boat was late seventies, it was a special mod, but within the OD rules and I think it came from IYE but most of the bits are available from Harken, Lewmar or even Barton, the rod itself was a about 5 feet of heavy alloy tube with sleeved eyes at each end. I started to make up similar for our current Moody but in the end bought a Boomstrut.
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Some dinghies have vaguely similar arrangements, also for struts to bend the mast from in front.
 
doug748 said:
I like the sound of those gallows esp if shorthanded and particularly if people have to go forward to reef.
Click to expand...

I don't know that it's practical to use a boom gallows with sails set, particularly in any breeze, they normally hold the boom dead centre.
 
doug748 said:
I like the sound of those gallows esp if shorthanded and particularly if people have to go forward to reef.
Click to expand...

We reef at the mast and are short handed! I have been planning a stainless tube rigid gallows ahead of the companion hatch (well, over the hatch garage) with three positions for the boom, and a pair of fanny bars at the mast.

The design takes a bit of fiddling as you want to be able to drop the boom into the leeward recess in the cross member whilst you tie the points off, but you absolutely don't want the gallows to contact the boom when the sail is set, whether reefed or not.

The lee side recesses need to be a but outboard of where the boom usually sits when going to windward as the act of easing the topping lift will move the boom to leeward anyway.
 
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lw395 said:
Some dinghies have vaguely similar arrangements, also for struts to bend the mast from in front.
Click to expand...

In my view, a vang which could either push or pull in an adjustable controlled fashion seems like obviously the nice thing to have. Presumably I'm not the only person to have thought this, yet nobody does it?
Perhaps there are pitfalls which are not obvious?
I think maybe some proper bit boats have hydraulic push-pull kickers?

It's easy to get into serious engineering, just to get rid of a simple topping lift and a stick with a fork on top to use as a boom crutch.
Difficult bit with a boom crutch is sorting a neat socket for it in the deck or whatever.
 
Given the size and weight of the boom involved I'd fit a gallows. A solid kicker doesn't stop the boom bouncing about when there's either no sail set or when it's being hoisted or dowsed. Plus it's much more expensive

On my boat I can pull the boom hard against the spray hood which makes life so much easier when flaking the main in a seaway. Also, with a solid kicker it means you can't drop the boom to the deck. Which is useful when running under storm canvas.
 
michael_w said:
Given the size and weight of the boom involved I'd fit a gallows. A solid kicker doesn't stop the boom bouncing about when there's either no sail set or when it's being hoisted or dowsed. Plus it's much more expensive

On my boat I can pull the boom hard against the spray hood which makes life so much easier when flaking the main in a seaway. Also, with a solid kicker it means you can't drop the boom to the deck. Which is useful when running under storm canvas.
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Thanks Michael.
 
michael_w said:
Given the size and weight of the boom involved I'd fit a gallows. A solid kicker doesn't stop the boom bouncing about when there's either no sail set or when it's being hoisted or dowsed. Plus it's much more expensive

On my boat I can pull the boom hard against the spray hood which makes life so much easier when flaking the main in a seaway. Also, with a solid kicker it means you can't drop the boom to the deck. Which is useful when running under storm canvas.
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We’ve got a Seldon gas kicker fitted. Once the sail is dropped into the stack pack, I have a line from the coach house grab handle which I clip to the boom. With a bit of tension on the topping lift, that’s the boom locked into position. Then the sail can be tidied up and the stack pack zipped up. No need for an additional structure such as a gallows.
Even without a rod kicker, I use a similar set up on my mini boat, a Hurley 18. The topping lift, mainsheet and a line to the boom end fix the boom in position so we can tidy the sail away. It stops it rattling about as the boat moves, making for a quieter night. No great tension involved in either setup but I don’t really see the point of a gallows or similar, when a light line will keep the boom in place.
 
We have Barton Boomstrut which is excellent - always hold the boom wherever you set it, held in position with the kicking strap which is now a cascade system so very quick. Nothing to go wrong, no gas struts or springs to break. Topping lift is now an emergency main halliard.
 
Kukri said:
We reef at the mast and are short handed! I have been planning a stainless tube rigid gallows ahead of the companion hatch (well, over the hatch garage) with three positions for the boom, and a pair of fanny bars at the mast.

The design takes a bit of fiddling as you want to be able to drop the boom into the leeward recess in the cross member whilst you tie the points off, but you absolutely don't want the gallows to contact the boom when the sail is set, whether reefed or not.

The lee side recesses need to be a but outboard of where the boom usually sits when going to windward as the act of easing the topping lift will move the boom to leeward anyway.
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Yes, a matter of nice judgement. It needs to be high enough to offer ready support but not so high as to allow the boom to crash down on it, should the main be allowed to flog, in any full sail or reefed condition.
An experimental prototype might be prudent?
 
doug748 said:
Yes, a matter of nice judgement. It needs to be high enough to offer ready support but not so high as to allow the boom to crash down on it, should the main be allowed to flog, in any full sail or reefed condition.
An experimental prototype might be prudent?
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Yes. I think this is a suitable case for a wooden mock up - not quite on the scale used by Vickers Barrow-in-Furness when building the RN’s first nuclear missile submarines, but if they did it, building an entire wooden submarine, it’s not silly - might be the best plan!
 
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Kukri said:
Yes. I think this is a suitable case for a wooden mock up - not quite on the scale used by Vickers Barrow-in-Furness when building the RN’s first nuclear missile submarines, but if they did it, building an entire wooden submarine, it’s not silly - might be the best plan!
Click to expand...
'

They did build it and I have been "on board" it during training. It was in a big shed.

The idea was to help decide where everything would fit, pipe runs and so on.

Nowadays it would all be done by CAD, of course.

Some of the merchant ships I was an engineer on could have done with having something like that done.

I was on a couple of horrible ships owned by the Gomba Shipping Company where the machinery layout seemed to have been done by dropping everything down the funnel and welding it in place wherever it happened to land.

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However, that is not why I came to this thread. I am interested in your planned boom gallows mounted ahead of the cockpit because I would like to fit something similar. I'm thinking of using aluminium KeeLite tube and fittings with a teak crossbar.

This sort of thing:

boom gallows ahead of cockpit.jpg

Not as nice as the bronze fittings in the Davey catalogue but the price asked for them is sky-high.

Did you ever go ahead with this idea?
 
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