Sticky Fingers
Well-known member
Also worth mentioning that SeaStart will attend a fouled prop although Portland is on the edge of their area.
solent to west country Next week
- Thread starter steveeasy
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steveeasy
Well-known member
Really, the things you all get up too!! I can now just imagine myself caught by god knows what, Donned in a wetsuite with flippers and a snorkel,oh and goggles, (don't like getting me eyes wet) 18 inch chiefs serrated knife and 6ft loppers under me arms. Splash, If ive not got caught in the strong current and drifted off, ill probably sever an artery. Still If I free the boat it might drift off on its own never to be seen again. I think ill say a prayer, could be my best option.
Steveeasy
Steveeasy
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laika
Well-known member
Goodness. What with the agulhas current creating rogue waves down the side of portland bill, pots, mines and killer mussels, I'm definitely going via Orkney next time.
https://imgflip.com/memegenerator
https://imgflip.com/memegenerator
Sandy
Well-known member
Apparently, the trouble is called Callum.
Bobc
Well-known member
I would recommend not leaving until Monday, but you can keep yourself amused over the weekend by going to Cowes and doing the Buses & Beer event (that's where I'm going).
weustace
Member
If it's any comfort, I came back non-stop Dartmouth-Chichester Hbr with one crew this summer (downwind in F6 most of the way). We didn't see any fishing gear once round Berry Head, nor did we hit any... of course, not to say it wasn't there!
If conditions likely to pick up towards F5+ (especially with limited auxiliary propulsion and going upwind) I would advise against the inshore passage for non-fishing reasons. We heard another yacht just within sight about 5-10nm SW of the Bill and positioned for the inshore passage, sounding quite uncomfortable with the sea state that had developed, call Solent CG to ask for advice on the inshore passage—though the CG was unable to offer any (fair enough, really). You can call Portland NCI on Ch65 (assuming there's somebody there) if you want a local opinion on the Race, but if you stick a few miles S of the Bill, you should be in normal Channel tidal speeds (i.e 3-3.5kn springs). (by my tidal stream charts anyway). (edit—in case this wasn't fairly obvious, if single handed I'm not sure I would advise going in F5+ anyway, depending on direction and boat...)
If conditions likely to pick up towards F5+ (especially with limited auxiliary propulsion and going upwind) I would advise against the inshore passage for non-fishing reasons. We heard another yacht just within sight about 5-10nm SW of the Bill and positioned for the inshore passage, sounding quite uncomfortable with the sea state that had developed, call Solent CG to ask for advice on the inshore passage—though the CG was unable to offer any (fair enough, really). You can call Portland NCI on Ch65 (assuming there's somebody there) if you want a local opinion on the Race, but if you stick a few miles S of the Bill, you should be in normal Channel tidal speeds (i.e 3-3.5kn springs). (by my tidal stream charts anyway). (edit—in case this wasn't fairly obvious, if single handed I'm not sure I would advise going in F5+ anyway, depending on direction and boat...)
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lw395
Well-known member
If you are going anywhere close to Portland, then the guidance on timings in MarK Fishwick's book West Country Cruising are probably the clearest, although TBH it's all in the almanac.
If you are not going anywhere close to the Bill, then it implies a long passage probably not terribly compatible with the OPs parameters of avoiding night sailing and not being well placed to do the whole thing by motor.
I have several times done the trip with a stop to Weymouth. When we leave Weymouth we always set up as if we're going to face the South Atlantic, everything secure, harnesses, tethers and all that. But it's always been a doddle. Cross the ledge off the Bill near slack water, dodge the pots, pick up the build W-going current to Dartmouth. If the wind dies, Brixham YC for a pint or two.
With favourable breeze and a good boat, my preference is to leave Yarmouth (buoys outside), be at Hurst as it's turning and go straight for Dartmouth/Brixham.
It's not Biscay for godsake but it is mid October and not trivial if anything goes against a single hander.
The forecasts are a mess lately and weather windows are short and need to be grabbed, particularly if you don't want a drifter or a robust beat.
If you are not going anywhere close to the Bill, then it implies a long passage probably not terribly compatible with the OPs parameters of avoiding night sailing and not being well placed to do the whole thing by motor.
I have several times done the trip with a stop to Weymouth. When we leave Weymouth we always set up as if we're going to face the South Atlantic, everything secure, harnesses, tethers and all that. But it's always been a doddle. Cross the ledge off the Bill near slack water, dodge the pots, pick up the build W-going current to Dartmouth. If the wind dies, Brixham YC for a pint or two.
With favourable breeze and a good boat, my preference is to leave Yarmouth (buoys outside), be at Hurst as it's turning and go straight for Dartmouth/Brixham.
It's not Biscay for godsake but it is mid October and not trivial if anything goes against a single hander.
The forecasts are a mess lately and weather windows are short and need to be grabbed, particularly if you don't want a drifter or a robust beat.
steveeasy
Well-known member
Re: Resurrected thread solent to west country Next week
Hi,
Well later than never but I am keen to sail from Solent to Falmouth Next week. I again have contemplated putting this trip off but id really like to attend a Twister meet up in Falmouth next Friday/sat. I need to be in Falmouth for Friday evening. As ever I am constrained by work. New sails to collect tomorrow. Then the plan is to prep boat for trip on Saturday. Sunday have a shake down sail around the Solent. although I do not plan to sail overnight, I am going to Fit an AIS enabled VHF. Monday leave the Hamble and head to either Yarmouth or Lymington. Then make hay while the sun shines, Tuesday High tide 4am straight to Dartmouth either via North channel or main with 6 hours Ebbing with a NE, 6 hours against the tide and then another 6 hours with the flow arriving in Dartmouth around 9pm. Wednesday Leave Dartmouth 6AM with the tide to Plymouth. Thursday Plymouth to Falmouth.
Forecast seams favourable at present with NE during the week, strongish winds on Wednesday but can reef early. my concerns are wave height on the Wednesday with forecast 2/3mtr swells.
Should I be put off from using the needles main channel when im planning on going with an ebb tide and an easterly. I have never undertaken a trip this far and therefore want stops to sleep and rest. Should I leave early against the tide say an hour early to get the most of the ebb tidew to get past St Alban head. Ive allowed for 5knts with the tide and 2nkts against the tide to make Dartmouth by nightfall. Does any of this sound a reasonable plan. Am I missing something in the forecasts.
Id appreciate any advice.
Steveeasy
Hi,
Well later than never but I am keen to sail from Solent to Falmouth Next week. I again have contemplated putting this trip off but id really like to attend a Twister meet up in Falmouth next Friday/sat. I need to be in Falmouth for Friday evening. As ever I am constrained by work. New sails to collect tomorrow. Then the plan is to prep boat for trip on Saturday. Sunday have a shake down sail around the Solent. although I do not plan to sail overnight, I am going to Fit an AIS enabled VHF. Monday leave the Hamble and head to either Yarmouth or Lymington. Then make hay while the sun shines, Tuesday High tide 4am straight to Dartmouth either via North channel or main with 6 hours Ebbing with a NE, 6 hours against the tide and then another 6 hours with the flow arriving in Dartmouth around 9pm. Wednesday Leave Dartmouth 6AM with the tide to Plymouth. Thursday Plymouth to Falmouth.
Forecast seams favourable at present with NE during the week, strongish winds on Wednesday but can reef early. my concerns are wave height on the Wednesday with forecast 2/3mtr swells.
Should I be put off from using the needles main channel when im planning on going with an ebb tide and an easterly. I have never undertaken a trip this far and therefore want stops to sleep and rest. Should I leave early against the tide say an hour early to get the most of the ebb tidew to get past St Alban head. Ive allowed for 5knts with the tide and 2nkts against the tide to make Dartmouth by nightfall. Does any of this sound a reasonable plan. Am I missing something in the forecasts.
Id appreciate any advice.
Steveeasy
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Seajet
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Re: Resurrected thread solent to west country Next week
Steveeasy,
I'd still recommend the North Channel once past Hurst, it's a short cut and much calmer.
Personally I'd go for Studland, have a good meal and rest, sleep if poss' then outside Portland Race ( 5 miles off ) to Brixham.
After that it's hops to say Fowey - I'd avoid Plymouth as it's time consuming - to glorious Falmouth - do visit the Chain Locker !
Now the crucial Top Tip;
NEVER sail to a schedule, no matter how much you want to be there ( or back at the office for a Monday morning ) - that's the way most people nowadays get a good kicking by Neptune and / or in trouble.
Steveeasy,
I'd still recommend the North Channel once past Hurst, it's a short cut and much calmer.
Personally I'd go for Studland, have a good meal and rest, sleep if poss' then outside Portland Race ( 5 miles off ) to Brixham.
After that it's hops to say Fowey - I'd avoid Plymouth as it's time consuming - to glorious Falmouth - do visit the Chain Locker !
Now the crucial Top Tip;
NEVER sail to a schedule, no matter how much you want to be there ( or back at the office for a Monday morning ) - that's the way most people nowadays get a good kicking by Neptune and / or in trouble.
Wansworth
Well-known member
Re: Resurrected thread solent to west country Next week
In a 15 footer,Cowes,Yarmouth,swanage,Weymouth,Brigham,Plymouth,Fowey,falmouth
In a 15 footer,Cowes,Yarmouth,swanage,Weymouth,Brigham,Plymouth,Fowey,falmouth
dom
Well-known member
Re: Resurrected thread solent to west country Next week
Hi Steve, my advice is a tad different - lol! You mention a twister and avoiding the night. There is no night right now on the South Coast, for the sun never dips below 14deg beneath the horizon. That just leaves the 4hrs (2300-0300) of astronomical twilight when it's almost dark, but not quite.
It's full springs on Tue 2nd: so if the forecast light N through E winds materialise, the Needles will be a doddle, as will the Bill. But the tidal gates won't. I doubt you'll get past the Bill on that first ebb and - either inshore or offshore - and the tide may be too strong or impossible to plug.
So, here's what I'd do. Day 1: Yarmouth to Lulworth: a bit of a detour, but you should manage that on the ebb. If you can't, then stop at Studland, have a rest and pootle around on the afternoon tide. Enjoy the Jurassic Coast, for in light winds with any North in them and no swell it'll be calm. Just avoid the marked overfalls.
Day 2: Refreshed I'd set off at the crack of dawn and aim for the inner Bill passage. F3/4 or less from the N/E it'll be fine as dandy. Don't worry too much about the overfalls (modest in such weather), they are well marked and you can see them by day. Once past the Bill, you're in the land of weaker tides and open water.
From there on, just take it as you go: I might anchor for the night in somewhere like Starehole Bay (just outside Salcombe) to sleep-out the adverse tide, then a cup of coffee, and set sail for Falmouth, or possibly Fowey-Falmouth.
Tip: try not to exhaust yourself: it is the biggest danger you will face out there and totally manageable. May I suggest flasks of hot coffee/tea, or even a RedBull though I hate the things.
Good luck and fair winds :encouragement:
Hi Steve, my advice is a tad different - lol! You mention a twister and avoiding the night. There is no night right now on the South Coast, for the sun never dips below 14deg beneath the horizon. That just leaves the 4hrs (2300-0300) of astronomical twilight when it's almost dark, but not quite.
It's full springs on Tue 2nd: so if the forecast light N through E winds materialise, the Needles will be a doddle, as will the Bill. But the tidal gates won't. I doubt you'll get past the Bill on that first ebb and - either inshore or offshore - and the tide may be too strong or impossible to plug.
So, here's what I'd do. Day 1: Yarmouth to Lulworth: a bit of a detour, but you should manage that on the ebb. If you can't, then stop at Studland, have a rest and pootle around on the afternoon tide. Enjoy the Jurassic Coast, for in light winds with any North in them and no swell it'll be calm. Just avoid the marked overfalls.
Day 2: Refreshed I'd set off at the crack of dawn and aim for the inner Bill passage. F3/4 or less from the N/E it'll be fine as dandy. Don't worry too much about the overfalls (modest in such weather), they are well marked and you can see them by day. Once past the Bill, you're in the land of weaker tides and open water.
From there on, just take it as you go: I might anchor for the night in somewhere like Starehole Bay (just outside Salcombe) to sleep-out the adverse tide, then a cup of coffee, and set sail for Falmouth, or possibly Fowey-Falmouth.
Tip: try not to exhaust yourself: it is the biggest danger you will face out there and totally manageable. May I suggest flasks of hot coffee/tea, or even a RedBull though I hate the things.
Good luck and fair winds :encouragement:
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Seajet
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Re: Resurrected thread solent to west country Next week
Wansworth,
not so sure about Swanage or Plymouth, in a 15 footer I'd be closer inshore and strongly consider Lyme Regis and like the OP maybe the Yealm and Salcombe.
The OP seems to have a trustworthy offshore 28' Twister.
Wansworth,
not so sure about Swanage or Plymouth, in a 15 footer I'd be closer inshore and strongly consider Lyme Regis and like the OP maybe the Yealm and Salcombe.
The OP seems to have a trustworthy offshore 28' Twister.
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oldmanofthehills
Well-known member
Re: Resurrected thread solent to west country Next week
One piece of advice is that if you are changing radio fit one with both GPS and AIS receiver as that stop you being dependant on connection to chart plotter. Standard Horizon do one. Belt and braces, a great benefit if chart plotter fails or you just want to turn it off..
As for your passage, Seajet is correct that you must be flexible. Having had a nasty time in Needles South channel myself, certainly consider the North Channel. Its nearly a hundred miles or more from Yarmouth to Dartmouth and I would allow at least 20 hours in our boat for that unless I was willing to motor all the way and the seas were flat, and make sure I was arriving in the strange port in daylight. No doubt the Twister is faster but its still a long way and winds are uncertain. Do you have autohelm or tiller pilot? I would be reluctant to go without crew to stand watches on such a long passage, the crab pots alone are a serious hazard and getting caught by one off Portland could be very dangerous.
Brixham is a very nice port and was a good alternative to Dartmouth for us as suited the wind better, and we stopped at Portland to avoid such a long passage
As others have said Plymouth might be a detour from the direct route and not useful unless you need stores, though you can anchor in the Yealm just prior to Plymouth or by Cawsands just by the Plymouth breakwater if you need shelter rather go miles in towards the marinas.
Be aware that tidal flow lags the tide by up to 2 hours for some of the route. So to go west leave before slack rather than before high tide. Reeds or a Channel Pilot book should show it clearly
One piece of advice is that if you are changing radio fit one with both GPS and AIS receiver as that stop you being dependant on connection to chart plotter. Standard Horizon do one. Belt and braces, a great benefit if chart plotter fails or you just want to turn it off..
As for your passage, Seajet is correct that you must be flexible. Having had a nasty time in Needles South channel myself, certainly consider the North Channel. Its nearly a hundred miles or more from Yarmouth to Dartmouth and I would allow at least 20 hours in our boat for that unless I was willing to motor all the way and the seas were flat, and make sure I was arriving in the strange port in daylight. No doubt the Twister is faster but its still a long way and winds are uncertain. Do you have autohelm or tiller pilot? I would be reluctant to go without crew to stand watches on such a long passage, the crab pots alone are a serious hazard and getting caught by one off Portland could be very dangerous.
Brixham is a very nice port and was a good alternative to Dartmouth for us as suited the wind better, and we stopped at Portland to avoid such a long passage
As others have said Plymouth might be a detour from the direct route and not useful unless you need stores, though you can anchor in the Yealm just prior to Plymouth or by Cawsands just by the Plymouth breakwater if you need shelter rather go miles in towards the marinas.
Be aware that tidal flow lags the tide by up to 2 hours for some of the route. So to go west leave before slack rather than before high tide. Reeds or a Channel Pilot book should show it clearly
steveeasy
Well-known member
Re: Resurrected thread solent to west country Next week
Some really helpful advice. I am going to fit a V50 VHF with AIS, ill check to see if it has GPS, sure it does. I have a good chartplotter as well, and use an old garmin 128 as a back up. Ive a tiller pilot that we all now probably will pack up, ive a haslar wind vane ill use. Coffee in flasks and Red Bull Make sense.
I think ill use the North channel and leave promptly. go with the tide and see how it goes. id like to go straight to Dartmouth, but if I make slow progress ill stop. I don't want to enter Dartmouth in the Dark. If I make good progress Ill sail through the night avoiding Portland Bill. Good points about night time light, its the ideal time to sail at night. No choice but to single hand,
Steveeasy
Some really helpful advice. I am going to fit a V50 VHF with AIS, ill check to see if it has GPS, sure it does. I have a good chartplotter as well, and use an old garmin 128 as a back up. Ive a tiller pilot that we all now probably will pack up, ive a haslar wind vane ill use. Coffee in flasks and Red Bull Make sense.
I think ill use the North channel and leave promptly. go with the tide and see how it goes. id like to go straight to Dartmouth, but if I make slow progress ill stop. I don't want to enter Dartmouth in the Dark. If I make good progress Ill sail through the night avoiding Portland Bill. Good points about night time light, its the ideal time to sail at night. No choice but to single hand,
Steveeasy
dom
Well-known member
Re: Resurrected thread solent to west country Next week
Final thought, you'll probably dream conditions for your trip west, but perhaps a tad light on according to some models. Have a flick through here for some different models (GFS, ECMWF, etc) if you haven't already.
https://www.windy.com/?gfs,2019-07-01-09,50.485,-2.834,7,m:e26af4Y
Be aware that finding fuel can be a right royal PITA esp if out of hours in places like Dartmouth. Also, if you're running on clean, dry, FAME-free Solent diesel, those barges in places like Salcombe/Dartmouth have a somewhat dodgy reputation. So, brim your tank before departure, and take a couple of spare filters (primary and secondary) just in case.
And carefully rig those sails to avoid foredeck-tweaking alone at night!
Final thought, you'll probably dream conditions for your trip west, but perhaps a tad light on according to some models. Have a flick through here for some different models (GFS, ECMWF, etc) if you haven't already.
https://www.windy.com/?gfs,2019-07-01-09,50.485,-2.834,7,m:e26af4Y
Be aware that finding fuel can be a right royal PITA esp if out of hours in places like Dartmouth. Also, if you're running on clean, dry, FAME-free Solent diesel, those barges in places like Salcombe/Dartmouth have a somewhat dodgy reputation. So, brim your tank before departure, and take a couple of spare filters (primary and secondary) just in case.
And carefully rig those sails to avoid foredeck-tweaking alone at night!
Wansworth
Well-known member
Re: Resurrected thread solent to west country Next week
My cruise was in 1972 in my trusty macwester 15 footer!
My cruise was in 1972 in my trusty macwester 15 footer!
lw395
Well-known member
Re: Resurrected thread solent to west country Next week
Is this singlehanded?
It's all do-able, but I would suggest that a week ahead, the forecasts can change quite a bit.
I'm a great fan of going to Dartmouth or thereabouts in one hit, but the object of that is to make lots of progress early in my holiday.
In your situation, I would not be wasting Sunday and Monday.
BBC gives upt to 18mph for Portland on Sunday, I'd be watching the forecast if it decreases rather than increases, I'd be looking to get to Poole/Swanage/Weymouth.
When you say 'Plymouth' I would avoid the city itself, but Cawsand or Yealm are good, Plymouth is a big detour, almost as quick to get to Fowey sometimes.
Personally I don't think 3m swells are an issue when you're out in deep water.
But it will make any tidal effect over ledges etc worse, so look to be more offshore generally.
Is this singlehanded?
It's all do-able, but I would suggest that a week ahead, the forecasts can change quite a bit.
I'm a great fan of going to Dartmouth or thereabouts in one hit, but the object of that is to make lots of progress early in my holiday.
In your situation, I would not be wasting Sunday and Monday.
BBC gives upt to 18mph for Portland on Sunday, I'd be watching the forecast if it decreases rather than increases, I'd be looking to get to Poole/Swanage/Weymouth.
When you say 'Plymouth' I would avoid the city itself, but Cawsand or Yealm are good, Plymouth is a big detour, almost as quick to get to Fowey sometimes.
Personally I don't think 3m swells are an issue when you're out in deep water.
But it will make any tidal effect over ledges etc worse, so look to be more offshore generally.
Seajet
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Re: Resurrected thread solent to west country Next week
What you say seems very sensible to me, I dislike Red Bull and pot noodles but they can be handy on long trips !
Brixham then the Yealm is shorter but depends on progress; you're right to discount Dartmouth at night, I knew a full - tired -crew who went straight over the rocks to port of the entrance...
What you say seems very sensible to me, I dislike Red Bull and pot noodles but they can be handy on long trips !
Brixham then the Yealm is shorter but depends on progress; you're right to discount Dartmouth at night, I knew a full - tired -crew who went straight over the rocks to port of the entrance...
lw395
Well-known member
Re: Resurrected thread solent to west country Next week
Dartmouth is very easy in the dark, it has two sets of leading lights. Deep water. Even the RN generally cope with it.
Like almost everywhere else, you need an adequate plan and the relevant info.
It is of course much easier to re-plan as you go along if you have a crew to keep watch and steer, so s/h you need to cover all the bases in advance.
Dartmouth is very easy in the dark, it has two sets of leading lights. Deep water. Even the RN generally cope with it.
Like almost everywhere else, you need an adequate plan and the relevant info.
It is of course much easier to re-plan as you go along if you have a crew to keep watch and steer, so s/h you need to cover all the bases in advance.
Seajet
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Re: Resurrected thread solent to west country Next week
That's what I thought too, but apparently not so when fatigue - always the No.1 enemy - sets in...
I have very nearly been a victim of this myself, when tired out of one's mind - and maybe not realising it - you ' see what you want to see '.
That's what I thought too, but apparently not so when fatigue - always the No.1 enemy - sets in...
I have very nearly been a victim of this myself, when tired out of one's mind - and maybe not realising it - you ' see what you want to see '.