Binman
Well-Known Member
I saved that NASA instructions. Really good reading.
Soldering??
- Thread starter Spuddy
- Start date
RichardS
N/A
I've never left choc blocs. :encouragement:
I especially like pushing the bared wires through from each end so that the further screw grips the core and the insulation of the second wire and the nearer screw grips the insulation plus the core of the second wire.
I can't always do this but for thin wires it's a winner!
Richard
thinwater
Well-Known Member
http://www.pbase.com/mainecruising/wire_termination
All you wanted to know about crimping.
I'm not quite this particular, but I love my adjustable ratchet crimpers. I know how to solder, thank you, but 19 times out of 20, crimping is better. When crimping won't work, solder and remember the strain relief, no problem.
All you wanted to know about crimping.
I'm not quite this particular, but I love my adjustable ratchet crimpers. I know how to solder, thank you, but 19 times out of 20, crimping is better. When crimping won't work, solder and remember the strain relief, no problem.
sarabande
Well-Known Member
OV
Klauke make splendid and utterly solid tools, and their website is a mine of information about connections.
https://youtu.be/wksm1xI1Ms0
Loads more information and techniques there.
I have a multi-die ratchet crimper from them, the mechanical version of this
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k1k7R0ZeUO0
and when a connector is crimped - it stays crimped. But as a result of bad experience with cheapy boxes of connectors, I go for Klauke's own brand of terminal fittings and joints.
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Any reason? The concept seems OK or do you know they don't work?
ghostlymoron
Well-Known Member
I didn't find this article particularly clear. I'm sure there are better but thabks anyway.
skyflyer
Well-Known Member
No offence taken but you have taken my remarks slightly out of context!
My response "I don't know the answer" was to the OP's specific question
"is there any real foundation for avoiding soldered joints or is it an old sea-wives tale that has just got handed down?"
From the length of the thread I would now amend my reply to
"No! Because experts disagree!"
rotrax
Well-Known Member
A precis is as follows:-
It was found that soldered cables-especially multi wire ones-were made very stiff where the solder penatrated. If the flexible part of the cable was not very well supported breaks would invariably occur ar the end-or near the end- of the solder penatration. These were usually caused by the unsupported cable moving and vibrating in use, metal fatigue of the multiple strand wire being the cause. If the solder had penatrated under the insulation these breaks could be hard to trace.
Early motorcars and motorbikes were particularly affected. The electric horns on cars and bikes were often mounted on multiple leaf springs to protect their delicate innards from falling apart. The cables were invariably tinned at the ends and unless plenty of cable was allowed at the horn end, or the cables were wound like a coiled telephone cable failure was frequent. The horns would vibrate at certain frequencies in use, plus the vibration from road and engines allowed the unit to vibrate on its mounting.
Fixed electrical equipment-transformers, motors, dynamos suffered the same way. The solder made the wire stiff, so fatigue broke it adjacent to the solder penatration. Crimping-even just twisting the wire end and clamping with a screwed fitting alleviated the problen to some extent, but bought others in its wake-corrosion being one.
Anyone remember the copper shortage in the '70's? The BLMC group used iron cored wire-certainly non copper-for a couple of years and electrical wireing failures caused by fatigue went up 300% over the previous copper wires.
I was working for a short time in BLMC's Warranty Analysis Department at the time-a thankless task...........................
It was found that soldered cables-especially multi wire ones-were made very stiff where the solder penatrated. If the flexible part of the cable was not very well supported breaks would invariably occur ar the end-or near the end- of the solder penatration. These were usually caused by the unsupported cable moving and vibrating in use, metal fatigue of the multiple strand wire being the cause. If the solder had penatrated under the insulation these breaks could be hard to trace.
Early motorcars and motorbikes were particularly affected. The electric horns on cars and bikes were often mounted on multiple leaf springs to protect their delicate innards from falling apart. The cables were invariably tinned at the ends and unless plenty of cable was allowed at the horn end, or the cables were wound like a coiled telephone cable failure was frequent. The horns would vibrate at certain frequencies in use, plus the vibration from road and engines allowed the unit to vibrate on its mounting.
Fixed electrical equipment-transformers, motors, dynamos suffered the same way. The solder made the wire stiff, so fatigue broke it adjacent to the solder penatration. Crimping-even just twisting the wire end and clamping with a screwed fitting alleviated the problen to some extent, but bought others in its wake-corrosion being one.
Anyone remember the copper shortage in the '70's? The BLMC group used iron cored wire-certainly non copper-for a couple of years and electrical wireing failures caused by fatigue went up 300% over the previous copper wires.
I was working for a short time in BLMC's Warranty Analysis Department at the time-a thankless task...........................
skyflyer
Well-Known Member
Grumpybear
Well-Known Member
I'm sure he's right. My original 1999 vintage Autohelm GPS puck was wired to the Seatalk bus within the binnacle with them. When in 2008 the puck stopped working -due, as I found out much later, to internal battery failure - I connected the Raymarine replacement with the jelly connectors provided, and had no problems since. Clearly quite unfit for purpose....
grumpy_o_g
Well-Known Member
Either can make a very good connection but crimped are just as likely to fail as soldered where vibration and fatigue failure are the concern. Why people think there isn't a stress point where a crimped joint ends and the flexing cable starts is beyond me. BOTH types of join need to have the cable securely fastened.
When tinning the cable the amount of solder used is critical. Normally you can simply put a bit of flux on the stripped cable (avoid touching it with your fingers so as not to get grease on it but also make sure there's no powder on the conductor and that it's not nicked where the insulation was stripped). Then clean the iron and load it with solder and touch the wire to the iron for a second and that's it. If you practice on a few bits of wire you can see how far up the cable the solder has gone - it should go just inside the insulation but not so far up that it's not inside any heatshrink or other covering you put on the connection. If you have one of the spring type stands for your iron then you can wedge the iron into the coil and just touch the wire and connector (after you've tinned the connector of course) to it sometimes - makes life easier.
I find I can solder slightly faster than I can crimp, especially when doing loom ends, etc. but, in reality, the time is all in the prep anyway so it's totally academic.
When tinning the cable the amount of solder used is critical. Normally you can simply put a bit of flux on the stripped cable (avoid touching it with your fingers so as not to get grease on it but also make sure there's no powder on the conductor and that it's not nicked where the insulation was stripped). Then clean the iron and load it with solder and touch the wire to the iron for a second and that's it. If you practice on a few bits of wire you can see how far up the cable the solder has gone - it should go just inside the insulation but not so far up that it's not inside any heatshrink or other covering you put on the connection. If you have one of the spring type stands for your iron then you can wedge the iron into the coil and just touch the wire and connector (after you've tinned the connector of course) to it sometimes - makes life easier.
I find I can solder slightly faster than I can crimp, especially when doing loom ends, etc. but, in reality, the time is all in the prep anyway so it's totally academic.