Soldering??

I usually crimp and have no history of failures. I have had one soldered joint fail due to vibration - on to the sensor for my TinyTach revs counter. It was due to bad practice. The wire was unsupported and the engine dances around. Remade with support to the wire about six years ago and still going strong. You do have to have a proper ratchet crimp tool adjusted right. I solder wires to skinny to crimp.
 
rob2 said:
Surely that's also an even stronger argument for using crimps for on-board work? On a typical yacht, you can cut, strip and crimp a terminal on under any conditions. Working away from shorepower requires a gas iron and they really do require a bit of practice! Working on a wire in situ rather than on a nice flat work surface is also much easier with a crimp tool rather than needing three hands to hold the workpiece, an iron and solder.

I've always believed that almost any method of joining wires can be successful if properly supported and incorporating strain relief.

Rob.
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If you want to carry a universal crimp tool and a stock of every crimp you might possibly need, and you're confident you can use it in a hurry, then go ahead. I can solder anything anytime anywhere, and I'm confident I can tell whether the joint is correct and secure, so I'll always solder.
 
The move to lead-free solder is probably to blame for a lot of failures. I bought enough tin-lead solder to last me the rest of my life while it was still easy to find...
 
Hoolie said:
CPC-Farnell still stock traditional tin/lead solder
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I have noticed that it is still stocked by the big suppliers although it has disappeared from places like Maplins. Are any questions asked when you try to buy it? There was always provision in the EU directives for the continued use of lead based solder to repair legacy equipment that was built when it was standard, but I was under the impression that the intent of the rules was to make it difficult to obtain.
 
maby said:
I have noticed that it is still stocked by the big suppliers although it has disappeared from places like Maplins. Are any questions asked when you try to buy it? There was always provision in the EU directives for the continued use of lead based solder to repair legacy equipment that was built when it was standard, but I was under the impression that the intent of the rules was to make it difficult to obtain.
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The idea is that those suppliers deal only with trade customers, CPC certainly have a separate domestic set up. Commercial users of solder will need to include COSHH information along with their product/service and thats where lead gets into trouble.
 
elton said:
If you want to carry a universal crimp tool and a stock of every crimp you might possibly need, and you're confident you can use it in a hurry, then go ahead. I can solder anything anytime anywhere, and I'm confident I can tell whether the joint is correct and secure, so I'll always solder.
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Both methods work, and at the end of the day they are only for making connections.

As to soldering anything, anytime, anywhere, that is a big, and perhaps foolish statement.

I can-and have done for many years-carry out all types of soldering, from hi tec solid state electronics using heat sinks and tiny low powered tips to No. 10 oxy-acetelyne jets and brass radiators. A freind of mine, now deceased , used to make replacement cores for vintage honeycomb radiators on Scott water cooled motorbikes.

There is no way you could do this, and I suspect you could not even work out how it must be done.

I used to make replacement Motorcycle control cables soldering the brass nipples in place. In over 30 years I made thousands without any of my nipples falling off. That last bit is quite important when trusting your life to a front brake cable you made the night before...............................

Someone used to say about me-" Go and see Rotrax-he can fix shit to perspex! "

I once fixed over a hundred cooling fins to a Precision Vee twin engine-all had been chiseled off and sheet steel containers brazed round them for crude water cooling.

The engine was the only one remaining and was worth saving. The technique was to make the replacement fins from old bed iron frames-the nearest material that we could find, tin them with low tempreture nickle bronze and put to one side. The integral cylinders and heads were then preheated on an industrial 4KW hotplate and themselves tinned with the nickel bronze.

Using an assistant the units were preheated once more and each fin clamped in a pair of small mole grips was held in its correct place while a soft flame was played over the area. Borax flux was used.

About ten fins could be done each session, the fumes and trembly hands callin it a day. Financially it was a disaster, but I suppose I broke even.

Job satisfaction wise, it was the best thing I ever did!

I was the customers last hope-all the other specialists turned it down The method was taught to me by Bob Jones, the Swindon Speedway legend. When a primary chain broke on a Speedway JAP it often smashed cylinder fins, and that is how he repaired them.

I am known as a clever and resourceful mechanic/engineer-but I would NEVER make such a sweeping boast as yours-in case someone challenged me........................................
 
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rotrax said:
Both methods work, and at the end of the day they are only for making connections.

As to soldering anything, anytime, anywhere, that is a big, and perhaps foolish statement.
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I am known as a clever and resourceful mechanic/engineer-but I would NEVER make such a sweeping boast as yours-in case someone challenged me........................................
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Fair enough, you want to drag the issue into the realm of extremes :rolleyes:

Meanwhile back here on planet Earth, we aren't likely to see anyone on a boat wanting to solder cooling fins to a precision v-twin engine in an emergency anytime soon :rolleyes:

I knew this is the idiotic way the discussion would go, hence my initial caveat.
 
You cane beat teeth, twist and tape. Quick, simple, reliable and no special tools required.
 
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I use solder sleeves( don't know if that's the name or not) transparent heat shrink tubing with a ring of solder in the middle, a bit like plumbing fittings. You stick the wires in so the bared ends overlap at the solder ring, and apply a blowtorch, the solder melts and flows into the wires, the plastic shrinks and sealed the connection, job done. Cheap as chips, but you have to wait for delivery from China.
 
"I recall recommendations on here NOT to use solder for connecting wires. The reason given was that vibration would lead to fatigue fracture."

Just my two penn'orth but I've yet to encounter a soldered joint that has suffered fatigue failure due to vibration. On the other hand, I've seen plenty of crimped electrical joints which have either failed or developed a high resistance due to corrosion.

Depending on the circuit amperage, a high resistance joint carrying an electrical load can generate an alarming amount of heat - and as I really don't want a faulty electrical connection glowing red hot (very likely in a hidden location) I go for properly made soldered joints every time.

Finally, and to reiterate what others have said in this thread, it isn't the soldered joint which fails under vibration. The problem of fatigue fracture may, however, occur in a wire close to, or at the point, where an unsupported wire meets the solder. This applies equally to soldered or crimped joints. The solution is to avoid having unsupported wires flapping around, thus leaving them vulnerable to engine vibration or other causes of regular flexing near a rigid joint.
 
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ghostlymoron said:
What do you solderers use to connect a wire to a spade connector as on a pump or instrument?
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There are spades for soldering, with slip over insulated covers. IMO, a bit OTT, there's nothing wrong with properly done crimps, same as there's nothing wrong with properly soldered connections.
 
elton said:
Fair enough, you want to drag the issue into the realm of extremes :rolleyes:

Meanwhile back here on planet Earth, we aren't likely to see anyone on a boat wanting to solder cooling fins to a precision v-twin engine in an emergency anytime soon :rolleyes:

I knew this is the idiotic way the discussion would go, hence my initial caveat.
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Not to extremes, but there is more to soldering than joining electrical cable and connectors.

Martini soldering-I would really like to see that.
Any thing
Any time
Any where
 
"What do you solderers use to connect a wire to a spade connector as on a pump or instrument?"

I generally take a belt 'n braces approach. The best type of joint (as used in milspec and other high quality installations) will have both mechanical and electrical integrity, so will not rely solely on either solder or a crimp for electrical continuity. So where reliability is the keyword I'll use a good quality spade connector soldered and crimped. Then I sleeve the assembled connection with heatshrink sleeving. I'll finish the job by securing the cable as near to the connector as possible. This might be achieved with a saddle clip, or - especially if it's a pump which is likely to vibrate - by using a zip tie to secure the cable to a nearby part of the same pump assembly. The idea here is that if the pump and joint are likely to vibrate in service, then the cable securing point will vibrate in unison, thus avoiding unnecessary movement between the cable and the joint.
 
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