Solder or Crimp?

[PaulJ]

I am installing a 12v windlass and have some hefty battery cable to take the power to it. It had been my intention to solder some connectors on the ends of these cables but I was advised today that it is better to crimp the connectors on because solder can make the joint brittle and can also cause corrosion if water gets in there. I've never had any problem with soldered joints before but I've never used cable as thick as this before either........ Anybody got any views on this?

 

[Guest]

Soldering works for me, though I generally bind it in shrinktube to seal it as much as I can. Crimps would let in more water than solder and shrinktube I would have thought.

 

[Rowana]

DO NOT SOLDER.
Use crimps at all times, but with this size cable, you will need to beg, borrow or otherwise acquire, the CORRECT professional crimping tool, probaly hydraulic.
Could you measure & cut cables to the correct length, then take them to have terminals crimped on professionaly, return to boat & install?? This would be my preferred option, and I would also specify tinned cable - Bit more expensive, but well worth it in order to stop copper going all black and 'orrible IMHO.

Jim

 

[Paulka]

Crimp!
But, with the adequate tool.

Paul

 

[jfkal]

I use crimp and solder. Crimp first, heat up with a torch and fill all voids with solder.
Make sure you use tinned cable otherwise you DO get a corrosion problem. Once finished enhance with heat shrink tube (the type which has glue inside). Use that method for my main battery cable. Works fine for years.

 

[LORDNELSON]

I installed quite a lot of thick cable in connection with fitting a battery charging management device last fitting-out. I provided Index Marine with the lengths and size of terminals of each cable run and they cut, crimped and shrunk covering on all terminals, they made a good job of it, I have had no problems up to now; so far as I remember they just charged for materials.

 

[halcyon]

With crimps you have to have the right crimping tool for the terminal and cable you are using, if you have you are fine. If one does not match, you are introuble with crimped connections, and you can get service failures. When I was designing fork trucks, wesoldered heavy cable joints, but had failures when we found they were soldering wire ends, then crimping, this caused the cable to fail at the end of the crimp. When we were building switch gear for boats we supplied around 7,500 half of which were soldered connections and over a 20 year period we had no corrosion problems with solder. In that period we have found terminals failing due to enbrittlement and corrosion, also we never used pre-insulated terminals as you connot check the crimp.


Brian

 

[jollyjacktar]

Seen this argument before

The experts on this forum all disagree. My ha'penny's worth relates to over 45 years experience. It seems to me that crimping is an industrially expediency for greater efficiency and an economical alternative to soldering, no heat required, instant, no need to allow for cooling, crimp tool does not use the as much electricity/power nor needs to heat up as a soldering iron does. I have come across a few soldering failures, but these are mostly obvious and often due to poor skill in soldering in the first palce. A well soldered joint is also obvious to the practiced eye.

Most of the joint failures I have come accross are in crimped connections. These are ofen caused by poor crimping tools and joints that are either over crimped or under crimped, causing failures through looseness or metal fatigue of the connector and/or the cable. Many poor crimped connections are difficult to pick, without proper electronic testing devices. Often the failure is just from corrosion in , under and over the crimp. I have spent many hours tracing electrical failures to such connections. Rarely have these been soldered connections, mostly crimped.

Give me a properly soldered connection anytime. But these take time to complete and need some skills to perfect. As for brittle and stiff wires, poppycock! How much of the cable do you solder? Normally only that area within the "stiff" tube of the lug etc. Cables should be properly secured as well to avoid flexing the joints. Anyway in the electronic field most of the joints are soldered and these stand up well to movement and vibration. Give me a properly soldered connection anytime.

 

[pvb]

Both.

For your application, you'll be best to do both. Crimp first, then heat the lug with a gas blowtorch and run some solder in. Finish off with some heat-shrink tubing (best to use the adhesive-lined type). Also ensure the wire is properly supported by cable clips so that the weight of the wire isn't hanging on the lug. I've used this method on my windlass wires and all my battery connections, with no problems at all.

 

[Strathglass]

Everyone has his own opinion but if you have the correct tools then only crimp. Do not solder. This is based on vibration tests on military equipment. I have watched soldered joints fall apart when vibrated but crimped joints stayed together on the same item.
If however you do not have access to the correct crimps and tools then soldering is a good compromise. In all cases you must support the free end of the wire with a good sleeve.
Iain

 

[Guest]

With heavy duty cables, both crimping and soldering present their own individual problems for the amateur without the proper tools.

Crimping heavy duty cables requires the proper tool and, as one poster suggested, might even require a hydraulic tool. It might be possible to hire such a tool, but I imagine it would be quite expensive. There is a hand operated ratchet tool available which crimps up to 25 square mm (80-100A) costing about £70.

The industrial method of soldering such cables was to use a solder pot (I don't know if it is still done). This created an almost instantaneous joint so that the heat
did not have time to damage the insulation.

Because of the bulk of metal in the cable and terminal, a soldering iron would have to be massive to make such a joint and the time required to heat up the joint would probably damage the insulation by making it hard and brittle.

The use of a gas torch to make a soldered joint would definitely damage the insulation and make it hard and brittle for an inch or two next to the joint. I accept the fact that many people have made joints this way but IMHO it is bad practice.

In any case, it seems that heavy duty solder terminals are very hard to come by.

I support the suggestions made by jmirvine and LORDNELSON. If you can't get the proper crimping tool, measure up and get it done professionally.<P ID="edit"><FONT SIZE=-1>Edited by achillesheel on Wed Jun 26 20:15:23 2002 (server time).</FONT></P>

 

[philip_stevens]

I fully agree with you on crimping.

In my 25 years as a Merchant Navy electrical officer, on over 40-odd container and reefer ships, all connections to motors and switchgear is crimped - never soldered, even after crimping. There is such a range of connectors, that there is always the correct size available.

Even all the connections on refrigerated containers power supply cables and control boxes had the connections crimped.

If you want to seal the ends of the cables in the crimps to prevent ingress of moisture, do what BT used to do (I don't know if they still do so) and either use crimps filled with grease or melt some grease into the crimped connection after crimping. Not much heat is required for that.

regards,
Philip

 

[tr7v8]

As someone trained in the aircraft industry where all connections are crimped that would be my preference, BUT and it's a big but, outside aviation I have seen many crimped joints give grief. Aircraft crimp tools are extremely accurately made and checked frequently. It is extremely difficult to crimp a joint in confined spaces and also difficult to check quality after it is done. A solder joint does bring its own problems but generally tends to be more reliable. Certainly all of my car stuff has been soldered and the only failures I've had have been brought in ones! And before people say boats are a more aggressive environment, its pretty aggressive in a car engine bay 4 inches from the ground and adjacent to a hot exhaust.

Jim
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[PaulJ]

Many thanks to all for your responses, there seem to be good arguements for both methods with a slight bias towards crimping. In this particular installation if I crimp them I will have measure up carefully and then remove the cables to get them crimped by the supplier.... I can do that. The problem then may be that the cables will be difficult to get back in because there are some quite restrictive places through which I will have to pass the connectors...... In true British compromise fashion it could turn out that I have to crimp one end and solder the other! Thanks again for all your responses.