Sold a faulty engine

[WoodyP]

I have bought rubbish before, described as the best of the best. I usually just sucked it up and used it as an expensive learning opportunity.. l once bought a tractor not as described and got my money back through the small claims court, but I was lucky to have a third party debtor order which froze the scamming bar stewards bank account. I was lucky. He wasn't smart enough to move the money to an unidentified account.

 

[Refueler]

When my Capri 2.8i Special suffered a crash due to faulty drive shaft (there was a batch problem that affected a number of 2.8i Fords) ... registered letters etc all failed ... Ford just held out .. Big Brother vs little man in street ... They just kept offering inverstigations / tests etc - dragging the whole thing out .. showing that they were 'agreeable' to looking at it .. but in fact just doing nothing - waiting for me to give in.

I even wrote to Esther Rantzen ... reply I rec'd basically said they had no interest to go up against a large Company such as Ford .. so much for her Consumer Rights fight. She had more interest in putting speed limits on roads in New Forest.

 

[footsoldier]

Now six pages in. Perhaps members should take note that, following his first couple of posts, the OP has has not engaged any further with you on this issue. I suspect that you may be talking amongst yourselves

 

[shanemax]

Looking for some advice.

A few months back we replaced the old knackered yanmar 2QM20 in our sailboat and installed a newer and more powerful Perkins perama M30.

We were sold the Perkins to us by Marine Enterprises Ltd for around £2800 for this we expected a fully reconditioned engine.

However when the engine arrived it was in a somewhat shoddy state; air intake was filthy, oil was black as night, control panel was sort of compatible, missing engine mounts (mounts clearly visble in the ad).

We emailed them to notify that we were dipleased with the lack of servicing done, they reply telling me how to rectify this and that they would sent out engine mounts as way of an apology.

These engine mounts were never sent out to us and we to order them ourselves at the cost of £120 as the launch date was quickly approaching. I contacted them again asking where the mounts were and never got a reply.

When testing the engine I found the tachometer was none functional and spent a considerable time consulting the workshop manual and a marine engineer about this issue. It was all wired up correctly with ground and T+ on the alternator, the alternator was working as it was outputting a decent voltage, clearly the tachy was faulty. didnt have the money to replace the tachy having spent so much on everything else.

So we were lifted in and commenced sea trails, a short sail to an anchorage a few hours away. The sailing was good but had issues with the Perkins starting, turned out to be air in fuel lines, easily remedied (cracked the injectors and reprimed).

leaving the anchorage had same issue, clearly something was amiss, pulled the injectors and found they were dirty and clogged, cleaned them, reprimed the fuel system and she fired straight up.

A few weeks later we took the boat to an achorage near our home port, approximately 5NM away. There wasnt much wind that day so had to fired up Perkins. Started and ran fine on the way there, nice sunny day fishing at the anchorage and returned home, ran fine on the way back to. A round trip of 10NM, 3 hours of motoring, just cruising along.

Went to start the engine the next day, kluck! nothing, no turn over. on closer inspection found all 3 cyclinders were filled with coolant. With abit of research deducted that the engine must have overheated and blew the head gasket, but why? hadn't run perkins that hard at all. Turned out the heat exchanger was very corroded on the interior and the coolant pump as well.

I contacted Marine Enterprises asking them to send out replacement parts, we'd had only brought the engine about 4 months prior and used it a total of 2-3 times and obviously this fualt was there when it was sold to us.

They're have not responsed at all to my repeated messages, for almost a months now. so here I am with dead in the water, having been ripped off.

What should I do?

If they advertised it as good condition and runs well, the small claims court will get your money back but if they just advertised it as an engine with no details the judge will say "let the buyer beware"

 

[PaulRainbow]

If they advertised it as good condition and runs well, the small claims court will get your money back but if they just advertised it as an engine with no details the judge will say "let the buyer beware"

The advert has been posted in the thread previously.

There is no such thing as "buyer beware" when buying from a trader, you have consumer rights.

 

[Poignard]

The advert has been posted in the thread previously.

There is no such thing as "buyer beware" when buying from a trader, you have consumer rights.

%

 

[oldharry]

Don't forget, Very few people replace a perfectly good engine.

Very true with one exception: re-engine for more power. I was lucky enough to acquire a perfectly good Volvo from a boat that really did need another 8-10hp to push it along well against a head sea. A hangover from the early days when sailing boats were meant to be sailed, and an engine was tolerated rather seen as an alternative means of getting there when wind didn't suit. The old Stuart Turners and Seagull outboards I grew up with the 1950's-60's could be truly character - and body - building!

I have to agree with OP's original post that I would expect a used engine being sold commercially to at least have been checked over, cleaned and given an oil and filter change, if only to enhance the Sellers trade reputation. Selling on an engine with 'oil as black as night' is unlikely to engender good customer relations IMHO, or a recommendation to other potential customers. OTOH from the description and price I would not expect the engine to have had anything done to it other than checking it starts and runs up without any obvious misfires noises or smoke. Equally, 'sold as seen' lets the seller off the hook for many ongoing issues even in a trade sale. Caveat emptor and I would guess the sellers small print will cover them pretty thoroughly against any claims of misrepresentation in cases like this.

 

[Tamar]

Very true with one exception: re-engine for more power. I was lucky enough to acquire a perfectly good Volvo from a boat that really did need another 8-10hp to push it along well against a head sea. A hangover from the early days when sailing boats were meant to be sailed, and an engine was tolerated rather seen as an alternative means of getting there when wind didn't suit. The old Stuart Turners and Seagull outboards I grew up with the 1950's-60's could be truly character - and body - building!

I have to agree with OP's original post that I would expect a used engine being sold commercially to at least have been checked over, cleaned and given an oil and filter change, if only to enhance the Sellers trade reputation. Selling on an engine with 'oil as black as night' is unlikely to engender good customer relations IMHO, or a recommendation to other potential customers. OTOH from the description and price I would not expect the engine to have had anything done to it other than checking it starts and runs up without any obvious misfires noises or smoke. Equally, 'sold as seen' lets the seller off the hook for many ongoing issues even in a trade sale. Caveat emptor and I would guess the sellers small print will cover them pretty thoroughly against any claims of misrepresentation in cases like this.

That's why I said 'very few people '

 

[potentillaCO32]

Now six pages in. Perhaps members should take note that, following his first couple of posts, the OP has has not engaged any further with you on this issue. I suspect that you may be talking amongst yourselves

This.

 

[Tranona]

That's why I said 'very few people '

But enough for at least 2 firms in the UK to make a good living out of selling those that are good enough for re-use. I had a Yanmar 1GM that I removed from one boat, used for 15 years in another, then sold it to go in another where it ran for at least another 10 years before the boat was sold out of the club. There was little wrong with the engine that came in my current boat - just the wrong engine and not very well installed. I sold it while it was till running in the boat so the buyer could see it and replaced it with a more appropriate new engine.

 

[oldharry]

I've had the pleasure of introducing my son to the series... little trip down memory lane for me... they are starting to seem a touch dated in places but still great reads.

Well they were written 70ish years ago and set in the post WW1 era of around 100 years ago. H&S, Safeguarding, Racial equality, mobile phones etc were all way in the future. And Titty! No one would dare call a character that nowadays. Even in the films she became 'Tatty'. Why not 'Kitty'? Yes they are very dated, but still paint an interesting albeit rather idealised picture of life as it was in the 1920's-30's for those that werent caught up in the Great Depression. Its quite interesting too to follow up what happened to the family Ransom modelled his Walker children on. Sorry fred drift!

 

[Poignard]

Now six pages in. Perhaps members should take note that, following his first couple of posts, the OP has has not engaged any further with you on this issue. I suspect that you may be talking amongst yourselves

He has made four posts, told his story, thanked people for their advice (post #14), and suffered some criticism.

No reason for him to 'engage' any more if he has got what he wanted from the forum, and no surprise if he doesn't.

What does surprise me about this thread is how little knowledge some posters have about their consumer rights. There has never been a more consumer oriented society than ours yet people still don't know what rights they have, and don't have. The relevant legislation is easily available on line and websites such as Which, Money Saving Expert, Citizens Advice, &c. , set out in easily understandable language all most of us are likely to need to know about the law and how to use it.

 

[chriss999]

Yes, but I find it inexplicable that he installed the engine when it so obviously didn’t comply with his expectations of a ‘reconditioned’ engine. Maybe the court will understand, but I don’t.

An odd situation, with no easy resolution.

 

[KompetentKrew]

Good thought.
It's only around £8 through your local Post Office for guaranteed next day delivery and signed for. Might just get them to negotiate a compromise deal.

I believe best practice is to send it regular mail, but get a proof of postage. The proof of postage is acceptable to the court, but they can refuse signed-for mail.

 

[reallycoliholic]

Feel sorry for the OP but IMHO the ad described it as just OK and running, they didn't say it was refurbed so why did he assume it was? One good point is, it's now winter and a good time to hoik the engine out and refurb it. Not much really to do to it that a half way competent mechanic couldn't do. No high tech ECU etc to programme, just take the head off, take out the crankshaft, change rings and main bearings and maybe crankshaft - maybe a couple of days work and it'd be back refurbed and working by Christmas Just don't take it to a marine firm, either DIY or get a tractor/vehicle co on it.

 

[Never Grumble]

He has made four posts, told his story, thanked people for their advice (post #14), and suffered some criticism.
What does surprise me about this thread is how little knowledge some posters have about their consumer rights. There has never been a more consumer oriented society than ours yet people still don't know what rights they have, and don't have. The relevant legislation is easily available on line and websites such as Which, Money Saving Expert, Citizens Advice, &c. , set out in easily understandable language all most of us are likely to need to know about the law and how to use it.

But can you tell us how those consumer rights are judged when considering a second hand item against something that is brand new. Is the test the same. It's one thing buying a brand new item from a business and yes you would expect that to last for a reasonable period but if you buy second hand wouldn't that reasonable period and expectation of quality be less?

 

[Poignard]

But can you tell us how those consumer rights are judged when considering a second hand item against something that is brand new. Is the test the same. It's one thing buying a brand new item from a business and yes you would expect that to last for a reasonable period but if you buy second hand wouldn't that reasonable period and expectation of quality be less?

Used goods are covered by consumer rights legislation.

Questions for a court to consider :

Does the existing consumer rights legislation apply in this case?

Is the OP a 'consumer' ?

Is the seller a 'trader'?

How was the engine described?

Was it 'as described'?

Was it of satisfactory quality?

Was it suitable for the purpose such items are normally intended to be used for?

And so on.

The court has to consider what is reasonable.

Did the buyer get what he was reasonably entitled to expect?

 

[Never Grumble]

Used goods are covered by consumer rights legislation.

I get all that but for a 35 year old second hand engine what is deemed satisfactory and/or reasonable? It must be a lower expectation when judged against a new one. What would the man on the clapham omnibus expect? Anyway enough legal pondering there must be something on television to watch.

 

[Poignard]

I get all that but for a 35 year old second hand engine what is deemed satisfactory and/or reasonable? It must be a lower expectation when judged against a new one. What would the man on the clapham omnibus expect? Anyway enough legal pondering there must be something on television to watch.

As I said, it's up to the court to decide what is satisfactory and reasonable.

Something to watch on television?

Try 'The Hack'. Free on ITVX.

 

[mattonthesea]

A book I've never heard of.

Another addition to my ever-growing 'To read' list!

There are 12 Swallows and Amazons books (well not all of them involve them all). Set from 1936-9. I still read them although I don't understand the measurements they use .