Sodium ion batteries

[Fr J Hackett]

Really? Even if you could gather more fuel as you go? Seems like a definition used to prevent progress rather than describing how far the power system could propel the vessel?

As I pointed out you would be waiting quite a while to gather enough fuel for a typical hybrid propulsion unit even if you had a very large for a yacht solar array.

 

[lustyd]

You do have a point but it is an argument against not for as with a typical 48V 40kW hybrid motor with somewhere between 500 and 1kW solar array that's going to take quite a while to put enough in the batteries especially if you don't want to ruin them by continually depleting them to zero charge. Food and water would become more of an issue.
It's why all the boats that are touted as having such propulsion have popping great generators and big diesel tanks.

It’s funny because you’re saying what I was saying. It may be slow, but it’s infinitely more than a diesel will manage after running out of fuel. If you use 2l per hour and have zero coming in that’s worse than using 40KW (which is arbitrarily high to prove your point) and having 6KWh coming in every day.

 

[Refueler]

Really? Even if you could gather more fuel as you go? Seems like a definition used to prevent progress rather than describing how far the power system could propel the vessel?

No he's keeping within the terminology - Range.

When looking at a car - do you say its indefinite then because there are a few charging points around ? If yes - then the diesel car would be indefinite as well ...

 

[lustyd]

If you have a 'diesel' engine - you intentionally limit distances needed to available fuel on board allowing a margin for safety.

But only because you don’t have diesel dripping into your tank. With electric thats not an issue.

 

[Refueler]

and so the road meanders on and on and on and on ......

 

[Fr J Hackett]

It’s funny because you’re saying what I was saying. It may be slow, but it’s infinitely more than a diesel will manage after running out of fuel. If you use 2l per hour and have zero coming in that’s worse than using 40KW (which is arbitrarily high to prove your point) and having 6KWh coming in every day.

Not arbitrarily high at all

https://www.yachtworld.co.uk/yacht/2020-garcia-exploration-52-10087820/

It's very limiting in fact, it may have an infinite supply but it will take you an infinite time to get anywhere.

 

[lustyd]

No he's keeping within the terminology - Range.

When looking at a car - do you say its indefinite then because there are a few charging points around ? If yes - then the diesel car would be indefinite as well ...

You’re confused. If a car has solar then it wouldn’t need charging points to carry on driving. It may take a while but range is infinite. A finite range is as you describe, when the juice is gone no more range because no more juice comes. Finite is the opposite of renewable.

 

[lustyd]

Not arbitrarily high at all

https://www.yachtworld.co.uk/yacht/2020-garcia-exploration-52-10087820/

It's very limiting in fact, it may have an infinite supply but it will take you an infinite time to get anywhere.

Exactly. It’s only an issue if you need to get back to work. I didn’t say otherwise. Infinite range is not up for debate though, the yacht doesn’t need more fuel and carries on for infinity distance with no further input.

 

[Fr J Hackett]

You’re confused. If a car has solar then it wouldn’t need charging points to carry on driving. It may take a while but range is infinite. A finite range is as you describe, when the juice is gone no more range because no more juice comes. Finite is the opposite of renewable.

We haven't even mentioned motoring at night either.

 

[Refueler]

You’re confused. If a car has solar then it wouldn’t need charging points to carry on driving. It may take a while but range is infinite. A finite range is as you describe, when the juice is gone no more range because no more juice comes. Finite is the opposite of renewable.

I wish you would split apart the ability to recharge and the term RANGE .... that is your twisting of the subject.

 

[lustyd]

We haven't even mentioned motoring at night either.

We don’t need to, range isn’t a factor of time it’s a factor of distance.

 

[lustyd]

I wish you would split apart the ability to recharge and the term RANGE .... that is your twisting of the subject.

Not at all. One needs addition of a fuel to move, the other doesn’t. It’s not complicated you’re just unwilling to accept the facts.

 

[Fr J Hackett]

Exactly. It’s only an issue if you need to get back to work. I didn’t say otherwise. Infinite range is not up for debate though, the yacht doesn’t need more fuel and carries on for infinity distance with no further input.

For me and others a yacht is ( was) not just a weekend jolly boat cruising a few miles away from home port. I once had to motor for 3 and a half days and ran out of fuel 40 miles from my destination and was fortunate enough to get a yacht on passage to drop me 50L of diesel which just got me into port.

 

[toothless]

corr this is kicking off.

My panels (about 1.2kw) on the boat pump out about 400w on average while im sailing due to shading etc. I can move through the water at about 3.5 knots on 400w alone - sails down. I can push 7 knots if I want, but power use rises very quickly so I usually stick at 400w ish. So, I can do that allllllllllllll day without touching my batteries. On a cloudy day I am only getting maybe half that rate, but that still means I am only drawing 2.4kwh (under 10%) from my batteries in a day worth of running. With no sun at all, the battery could keep me plodding for 75 hours. I tend to mainly sail at the weekends, so I can let the boat refuel itself sat on its pontoon all week. Or plug in at a marina overnight if I need to.

I just don't see a downside. But yes, I do have a small generator on board just in case - lets see how much I use it this season.

 

[lustyd]

For me and others a yacht is ( was) not just a weekend jolly boat cruising a few miles away from home port. I once had to motor for 3 and a half days and ran out of fuel 40 miles from my destination and was fortunate enough to get a yacht on passage to drop me 50L of diesel which just got me into port.

Yes that’s a problem for you. I never said it wasn’t. Range is range and what I actually said was accurate whether you like or agree or not.

 

[Fr J Hackett]

Yes that’s a problem for you. I never said it wasn’t. Range is range and what I actually said was accurate whether you like or agree or not.

I suggest you look at advertisements for motor yachts then, there is usually a line that quotes range and another that quotes tankage. The two go together.

 

[lustyd]

corr this is kicking off.

My panels (about 1.2kw) on the boat pump out about 400w on average while im sailing due to shading etc. I can move through the water at about 3.5 knots on 400w alone - sails down. I can push 7 knots if I want, but power use rises very quickly so I usually stick at 400w ish. So, I can do that allllllllllllll day without touching my batteries. On a cloudy day I am only getting maybe half that rate, but that still means I am only drawing 2.4kwh (under 10%) from my batteries in a day worth of running. With no sun at all, the battery could keep me plodding for 75 hours. I tend to mainly sail at the weekends, so I can let the boat refuel itself sat on its pontoon all week. Or plug in at a marina overnight if I need to.

I just don't see a downside. But yes, I do have a small generator on board just in case - lets see how much I use it this season.

My point was (and thanks for adding facts), if you push it and run out of power you literally just wait and carry on. Infinite range. If I push in my diesel and run out I’m absolutely stuffed until there’s wind.

 

[lustyd]

I suggest you look at advertisements for motor yachts then, there is usually a line that quotes range and another that quotes tankage. The two go together.

Battery range and yacht range aren’t the same. They’re aiming at weekenders with those numbers, not telling the whole story. I imaging solar isn’t standard either.

 

[Fr J Hackett]

My point was (and thanks for adding facts), if you push it and run out of power you literally just wait and carry on. Infinite range. If I push in my diesel and run out I’m absolutely stuffed until there’s wind.

I agree but range is range it's quite simple it's what you can achieve with a full tank or battery

 

[Refueler]

Potential buyer to sales agent :

Buyer > What's the range under power for this yacht ?

Agent > Arr Sir ... very good .... about 100nm and then of course you can recharge from solar ... on a good day - about xx hours to recharge .. so infinite range !!

Buyer > Hang on - you said about 100nm on a full battery charge ... so range is 100nm ?? Then I drift about waiting for batterys to recharge ?? What about when there's no sun ?

Agent now looks at shoes .. shuffling ...