so you have a 100k budget

Bosun Higgs

Bosun Higgs

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for a new boat - which do you buy? A new AWB such as a Beneteau, or a second hand more upmarket brand?

Brought on by FullCircle's comments on another thread, I just wondered how the forum would split. Seems to me and from comments by brokers, that the market is changing and more buyers are going for the new shiny cheaper makes, maybe eveb replacing them like they would a car when it gets to 3 or 4 years old.

P.S. Meant to add a poll but missed the chance. :(
 
Bosun Higgs said:
for a new boat - which do you buy? A new AWB such as a Beneteau, or a second hand more upmarket brand?

Brought on by FullCircle's comments on another thread, I just wondered how the forum would split. Seems to me and from comments by brokers, that the market is changing and more buyers are going for the new shiny cheaper makes, maybe eveb replacing them like they would a car when it gets to 3 or 4 years old.

P.S. Meant to add a poll but missed the chance. :(
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How about 5x £20k boats in different cruising grounds? Say N Wales, Falmouth, Clyde, Oban & Med?:D

Or even 2x50k one nearby & one on the Med, charter one to pay for the other. Doesn't make sense to throw all your spare cash into just one "investment".
 
I dont know were peeps are coming from thinking they can buy a nice all shiny and dancing new AWB for 100k..... The new Bene 31 is 80k ex vat without extras to start... so in reality thats 105k or so for a production 31 footer.....

The SO 36 starts at around 100k ex vat without bits... and the dufour 36 that just stopped production was running 140k with a good bit of kit on it...

This idea that new boats are cheap is *******s IMO.... the fall in the pound is meaning that new boats have gotten jolly expensive as of late... 5 years ago you could get a new Finngulf 33 OTW with gear and VAT for around 100k.... nowadays I figure no less than 150 or so....

What is happening is that a lot of youngish modern AWB's (Say 1998-2004) are going for spectacularly good value money.... (Bear in mind the drop in value of the pound...)

How about a 1999 38 foot Lloyds supervised 2 cabin 2 head AWB with almost every bit of kit in the universe with a excellent history....

£70k...

http://uk.yachtworld.com/boats/1999/Bavaria-38-Se-2249578/United-Kingdom


That is great value... bearing in mind the value of the pound now and 5 years ago especially...

But the new stuff is not cheap, not well screwed together, and not good value.
 
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Lady Campanula said:
How many all-singing, all-dancing charters in exotic locations could I get for £100K...?

There's the added benefit of no more antifouling or Lavac re-assembly for at least a decade.... :D
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That was always my consideration when buying.

Cost of money (either interest on loan, or loss of interest on money in bank) plus annual cost of upkeep, plus amount I would need to put away to replace the boat with an equivalent one in, say 20 years time. That is the equivalent annual cost of the boat. I then turn the sum into number of weeks charter I could get & If I don't use the boat that many weeks a year, I am better off chartering. Try it on your current boat, it can be a sobering calculation.

It does motivate one to make sure it get used from time to time!
 
would certainly be going the used boat in good condition route with a 100k budget, there is a large choice of good used boats out there and is a good time to buy as many are wanting to sell. What size/style of boat are you looking at?
 
photodog said:
This idea that new boats are cheap is *******s IMO.... the fall in the pound is meaning that new boats have gotten jolly expensive as of late... 5 years ago you could get a new Finngulf 33 OTW with gear and VAT for around 100k.... nowadays I figure no less than 150 or so....

But the new stuff is not cheap, not well screwed together, and not good value.
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Your figures are remarkably accurate, in 2007 our Finngulf was on the water with all the bits, (inc. gennaker with sprit etc. for not much more), a year later the price had gone up by more than 25%, all down to the exchange rate, there has been a very nice 2008 one for sale up here with an asking price of £134k. ( optimistic? but I hope he gets it) Up until then we had Scandanavians trekking past here on the way home with their new toys from Ardrossan or Kip, now only the Norwegians have the currency to make the trip worthwhile.
I do dispute the loss of quality though, the only quality change I can detect to the Finngulf has been the substitution of mahogany for teak down below.
 
Comments re; loss of quality do not apply to the Finngulf!

More my observations on the Beneteau and other production boats!
 
photodog said:
Comments re; loss of quality do not apply to the Finngulf!

More my observations on the Beneteau and other production boats!
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Particularly the Bavaria's as you have to factor in the cost of glue to stick their keels back on every season! :D
 
Hang on you lot - the question is new cheepo boat or older second hand for the same money. Whether its 100k or 150k or 70k or 200k is irrelevant really. It's do you prefer new and shiny and a lower value brand or do you go for older slightly tired more upmarket brand.

Second hand or new for same dosh
 
As someone who has timber boat disease, I have to go for second hand. For started I couldn'tr afford to commision a new timber boat, and secondly I like the history, and the patina they exude. If I was just looking at plastic, I would still go older, though.
 
Op Quote "Seems to me and from comments by brokers, that the market is changing and more buyers are going for the new shiny cheaper makes, maybe eveb replacing them like they would a car when it gets to 3 or 4 years old."

This is a key observation by the Bosun. For me, half the fun of having a boat is the changes/upgrades/tweaks we make to make the boat more what we want, set up in a way that suits what we do. Hours of painstaking labour and perhaps spending disporportionate to the value of the boat:)

This makes the boat much more personal than the average bloke with a car.

However there are a growing number of yachtties who buy new, do little to their boat other than basic maintenance (absolutely no criticism, just an observation) and who aim to change to a new model in 4 years or so before any major costs loom. I know, coz my younger brother falls into this catagory:D
 
Bosun Higgs said:
Second hand or new for same dosh
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Second hand for me....

You get totally Hosed on a new boat... currency... depreciation... and snags.

We bought a new boat in 1999.... and it had more snags than i could shake a stick at.
 
Bosun Higgs said:
Hang on you lot - the question is new cheepo boat or older second hand for the same money. Whether its 100k or 150k or 70k or 200k is irrelevant really. It's do you prefer new and shiny and a lower value brand or do you go for older slightly tired more upmarket brand.

Second hand or new for same dosh
Click to expand...
Definitely second hand, you get a lot more boat for the money.

Kit and condition are of secondary importance, getting the right basic boat to start with is essential.
 
West Coast said:
half the fun of having a boat is the changes/upgrades/tweaks we make to make the boat more what we want, set up in a way that suits what we do. Hours of painstaking labour and perhaps spending disporportionate to the value of the boat:)
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Agreed, the "value" of the boat and the time spent on it can't always be measured in a paper currency...not everything in life should have a dollar value or make "financial sense", isn't sailing to escape all that stuff!!!
 
Searush said:
That was always my consideration when buying.

Cost of money (either interest on loan, or loss of interest on money in bank) plus annual cost of upkeep, plus amount I would need to put away to replace the boat with an equivalent one in, say 20 years time. That is the equivalent annual cost of the boat. I then turn the sum into number of weeks charter I could get & If I don't use the boat that many weeks a year, I am better off chartering. Try it on your current boat, it can be a sobering calculation.

It does motivate one to make sure it get used from time to time!
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Spot on. This is why I bought a small Etap 21i and charter a 40'er in different locations once a year. the relatively low investment is matched by the relatively low running costs.
 
Oops - had not answered the original question:o

Second hand boat from one of the more expensive builders is my choice. Went this route in 2003 when buying my present boat and have never regretted the decision.

Would love to be able to buy new from these types of builder but budget wont stretch!

However, I was exceptionally fortunate to find a very well maintained 10 year old boat at the time:)
 
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