So I run a dock & a paying user comes to harm ...

[Firefly625]

interesting just having a look at available "Scrubbing off" piles in the Hamble, and see that there use maybe under threat anyway.."Hamble River harbourmaster said that there were two sets of public scrubbing posts and one private on the Hamble but they were now referred to as ‘maintenance piles’ and supposed to be used for changing anodes or removing ropes in a bid to discourage scrubbing off.
Mr Evans said, ‘In parts of Europe you can end up in jail for scrubbing off in places without the proper facilities.'"

Well once out of Europe maybe we will be safe to continue... who knows...

But more to the point was I saw the RAFYC website details nicely their facilities (which look very good... and I will be using later this year before my summer holiday) with even a few pics showing the position and also the hazard of end of the hardstanding! I have no idea where Trevor had his unfortunate incident but if a photo had been added to their website or booking form I am sure it would have avoided him taking a dunking.

https://rafyc.org.uk/maintenance-piles-2/#

 

[lpdsn]

The OP should contact the newspapers. I can see the headlines now "Yachtsman goes flying at RAF Yacht Club".

 

[BruceK]

He advises me that he had not seen my website as the booking was made by phone, and I hold a duty of care to provide a safe dock, and that I cannot use a set of unseen written terms to deny a possible claim of negligence.

It wouldn't have helped Firefly.
a) He didn't bother to look
b)still no warning signs on the seaward side or for that matter at the ledge.

 

[jimmy_the_builder]

Trevor has admitted in his original post he did not survey or make adequate inspection of the facility or media information beforehand. Trevor admits he used the facility like a Tesco parking bay. Trevor is a muppet and now wants to apportion blame. Trevor should man up, admit his mistake, have a good laugh and get on with it because nobody is making a stink about this but Trevor.

Hey Bruce, this is getting a bit personal, and harsh. Wind it down a notch.

 

[Firefly625]

Hey Bruce, this is getting a bit personal, and harsh. Wind it down a notch.

+1


and I think I may have inadvertently put my foot in it, I assumed Trevor used somewhere else, I am starting to think it may have been here. I will not be commenting hereafter.

 

[BruceK]

Fair call. I guess I'm just getting jaded myself being in a similar position of having to deal with vexatious complainers. I'll bow out now.

 

[oldgit]

is that not a pole (bent at a bit of an angle ) denoting the end of the platform above the shuttering ?

 

[anoccasionalyachtsman]

I have no idea where Trevor had his unfortunate incident but if a photo had been added to their website or booking form I am sure it would have avoided him taking a dunking.

https://rafyc.org.uk/maintenance-piles-2/#

Gosh, yes, imagine if the one he was using had a white painted stick (!) on the end of the lower sea wall at one end of the drop and a convenient end to the handrail at the other like that one? Then you wouldn't have to remember to be careful about six feet from the outer pile would you? You could also say to yourself 'Can I put my bow a foot from the end wall and still use the boarding ladder to get on board ?'. As a side note one might even think that since you were travelling by dinghy and working in mud under a boat it might be slightly wise to have your 'phone in a waterproof case. And wear a lifejacket.

You might think I that must be an over cautious type though, but that can't be true because I'm known to the HM there as the twat that fell off his boat without a lifejacket or his 'phone in a waterproof bag 200 yards from there last year.

 

[A1Sailor]

If I had been the dock owner, I think I would have apologised that the mishap had occurred without admitting liability, and I would have agreed to improve the signage from the water side. An explanatory briefing somewhere along the way might also have helped.

All this stuff about SOLAS / MCA and passage planning is hilariously irrelevant - where do they get that from?

As to the phone, have a check to see if it's covered by a policy somewhere, e.g. some bank accounts come with phone cover of some sort, house insurance, etc.

.

Maybe not apologised but definitely sympathised.

It is interesting to speculate on what would have happened if Superheat6k had actually drowned.
The HSE would have become involved and I wonder what their conclusions would have been.
Presumably the drying dock is part of a business which has responsibilities towards its customers so I imagine the HSE would become involved and after a death probably not taking any prisoners.

Was Superheat wearing an autogas lifejacket? If not, why not? Should there have been a sign suggesting it was a good idea?

 

[rafiki_]

Hey Bruce, this is getting a bit personal, and harsh. Wind it down a notch.

Well said Jimmy! I tried the more subtle approach, which clearly failed. Sometimes the direct approach is better!

 

[BruceK]

If my stance has offended you I apologise. I do however stand by what I said. Given the information and the evidence here and by third party this is a vexatious and needless complaint by someone who has failed to execute their own responsibilities and is seeking to forward his complaint and a stated possible claim...

hold a duty of care to provide a safe dock, and that I cannot use a set of unseen written terms to deny a possible claim of negligence.

. Who is in denial of his own responsibilities and is seeking justification here on the forum pursuant of possible further action which could lead to a negative result for everyone concerned and such facilities in general. I cannot condone his actions but only oppose them from a strenuous viewpoint. The fact that it is personal to some for whom he is an acquaintance or more is really arbitrary and still to me quite impersonal as I have no ties. I did not enter his name into the topic nor wished to do so. However it has and as it still is AFAIC arbitrary, Trevor may as well be called Joe Bloggs. And in this instance, Joe, AFAIC is being a muppet and if Joe did not seek to aggrandise his dubious position on a public forum when he's also failed to garner local support he may have avoided the backlash of an honest response.

 

[sorabain]

If my stance has offended you I apologise. I do however stand by what I said. Given the information and the evidence here and by third party this is a vexatious and needless complaint by someone who has failed to execute their own responsibilities and is seeking to forward his complaint and a stated possible claim... . Who is in denial of his own responsibilities and is seeking justification here on the forum pursuant of possible further action which could lead to a negative result for everyone concerned and such facilities in general. I cannot condone his actions but only oppose them from a strenuous viewpoint. The fact that it is personal to some for whom he is an acquaintance or more is really arbitrary and still to me quite impersonal as I have no ties. I did not enter his name into the topic nor wished to do so. However it has and as it still is AFAIC arbitrary, Trevor may as well be called Joe Bloggs. And in this instance, Joe, AFAIC is being a muppet and if Joe did not seek to aggrandise his dubious position on a public forum when he's also failed to garner local support he may have avoided the backlash of an honest response.

it's ironic that you seem to be so much against any kind of "blame culture", but you're the one doing all the finger pointing and black & white blaming. Those that sympathise with the OP will admit that there is a shared responsibility, and that making the ledge drop as obvious as possible will help matters. I might say it's a 50/50 split on responsibility and there may be easy and cheap things that could be done to improve matters. You seem to want to put 100% of the blame on the victim.

 

[BruceK]

Not really, my disappointment is that

a) he is in denial of his own responsibility
b) believes he is due some compensation with the implied threat of taking it further
c) a rather underhanded way of opening it up to the forum

I believe I have already agreed with you that further signage may be appropriate / desirable. Where I disagree with you is that any such signage, or lack thereof, either absolves or includes liability. I have to look at the balance of usage and personally I wonder what the statistics are for a claim of liability either way. To my mind if an estimated half million people per year can walk down Conwy Quay for example and not one fall in in memory / record do you need to state an obvious hazard. Please bear in mind it does get dark at night. Similarly how many before and after Joe Bloggs have made a similar error in ratio to usage. Has Joe Bloggs got a justifiable complaint? Quite possibly given the world we live in today. I hear if you trip on a raised pedestrian pavement flagstone and injure yourself you can make a claim. Would I sympathise? Probably not, I'd probably say look where you're walking next time. Do I think it right to be able to make such a vexatious claim, no. Personally I think such actions dilute and erode our personal independence and responsibilities. Legislating to meet the lowest common denominator.

 

[omega2]

LOOK BEFORE YOU LEAP?? I.E inspect the dock at low tide, and come back next day, or not!

 

[A1Sailor]

Please bear in mind it does get dark at night.

Indeed - but responsible boat owners will know it gets dark at night and remember to switch on their torch.

 

[oldgit]

LOOK BEFORE YOU LEAP?? I.E inspect the dock at low tide, and come back next day, or not!

Used our club blocks many times with different boats for antifouling and amazingly for outdrive repairs in the past etc.
Ideal for emergency rope fouling or prop swaps.

Still in the habit of popping down at LW to mentally check exactly where boat has to be positioned ,even though have to walk past blocks every single time to get to boat.
We do have dropped platform to allow clearance for stern gear then its water and /or mud all the way down.




As for lifting out, a day on the blocks is £40.00, lift out locally £180.00 each way. !

 

[Portofino]

Now we have seen a pic at LW from the alleged website .
It’s clear there’s a ledge .
There’s also a weak line imho in the internet t+c,s - could be better written I guess

“[Your use of any information or materials on this website is entirely at your own risk, for which we shall not be liable. It shall be your own responsibility to ensure that any products, services or information available through this website meet your specific requirements.]”

“Services “ is what I have picked out .

Ok no obvious signage in the pic s warning of a drop - so room for improvement there definitely.

But the owner took the call Trevor says for the booking ( or his staff acting for the Co / Club ? ) presumed assuming Trevs a none member took his payment over the phone if I understand the chain of events — and automatically assumed the punter had
1- eyeballed / reconnaissance’s the site .
1- seen the web pics demonstrating the hazard .

I would have thought biggest risk is boat tipping over
Site does say “ ensure boat is properly secured “ or words to that effect .

Also there’s a lot of stuff / warning over the use of the club jetwash .
Seems like it’s taken paint off and blown back forcing folks to fall over - so the site explicitly warns about these gems .

I guess they just assume with muddy water a bit of common sense where you tread wether or not you reccied or sighted the web pic at LW .

So for me now I can see why the operators ( a none for profit club by the sounds of it offering this “ service “ as a money spinner to none members ) are,t initially to keen to accede to Trevor s request for let’s face it “compo “

I mean what are they supposed to do compo wise if a guy just slips on the mud in 1 ft of water on the actual hard bit and knackers electrical items in his pockets ?
Where do you draw the line ?

I ve got a guy who helps me in the yard @ the annual lift .
He empties his pockets and takes his expensive watch off ,leaves everything on the saloon table. Why ?
Typically
Hose pops off = drenched
Acid split = rapid rinse needed
Bucket split while lifting overhead showering contents
Diesel spilt in the ER changing filters
Old oil ends up on everything .
AF splatter .
The list goes on

We where old clothes and footwear that normally at the end of the week just chuck in the skip

Point is he’s not asking for replacement s etc or any compo —- it’s an all risks on you helping ,no liability on me or the yard the mess we make and tools we knacker ,clothes we trash , chemicals exposed ,inhaled etc .

If I fell in those circumstances - having seen the pic afterwards - I would be too embarrassed to seek financial redress with the operator.
Certainly would not kick up a fuss .

What we don,t know is how often punters fall off that ledge .
But reading between the t+c,s lines they’ve had jet wash issues .

 

[benjenbav]

Man walks along pavement, falls into fenced-off hole dug by drain company. Silly clot.

Man walks along pavement, falls into unfenced hole dug by drain company. They should've fenced it.

Blind man walks along pavement, falls into fenced-off hole dug by drain company. No-one's fault? Everyone's fault? Guide-dog's fault?

 

[NormanS]

Man walks along pavement, falls into fenced-off hole dug by drain company. Silly clot.

Man walks along pavement, falls into unfenced hole dug by drain company. They should've fenced it.

Blind man walks along pavement, falls into fenced-off hole dug by drain company. No-one's fault? Everyone's fault? Guide-dog's fault?

Man wades through muddy water, and goes in rather deeper than expected. Silly clot.

 

[sorabain]

... said ledge was level with the back of my boat and my boat is shorter than the maximum length the dock is stated to be fit for ...

I'm wondering if the above is the source of misunderstanding. Perhaps the OP hadn't seen the bay at low water, or the website pic, but given the bay was stated to be good for X' and his boat was less than that he may have assumed that the bay itself was at least X' in length. If his boat was tight into the front he may have assumed there'd be plenty of room to move around the back.

In hindsight we can see flaws in this kind of reasoning, and all know the cliches around making assumptions, but perhaps we can see how an error in judgement may have come about and be surprised when he ran out of concrete.

I have no experience of this kind of operation so have no idea if it's common for such places to accept boats of a length that would overhang the ledge and prevent walking all the way around. In one of their other pics https://rafyc.org.uk/wp-content/uploads/photo-gallery/RAFYC Arial View.jpg?bwg=0 it looks like that one will have its tail over the edge, but presumably that's ok as long as the owner understands this with regards to access (the boat itself would be stable). How long is the actual concrete bit?