So, broker or no broker?

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prv

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Not quite yet, but in the not-too-distant future, it looks like we'll be selling KS and switching to a less interesting and attractive, but more capable, boat. When the time comes, I'm undecided as to whether to use a broker or sell directly. I'm sure the forum will not agree, but I'd be interested to hear the arguments :)

Broker or no, I will be putting together a web site with plenty of pictures and information. I also live near the boat and would have no problem taking potential buyers over her. The plan is to put her in the yard and do the antifoul before putting her on the market - it's not a hard job (she's not big) and she always looks fantastic afterwards. She also looks bigger out of the water :)

Not too worried about the mechanics of sale; we have a couple of old bills of sale plus the one to us, to demonstrate that we own the boat, an original VAT receipt in case anyone is worried about that, and at the end of the day it's not a complicated transaction.

The main benefit I'd expect to get from a broker is in finding potential buyers, and possibly in weeding out obvious timewasters. But is that worth the percentage that a broker will cost?

Thoughts?

Pete
 
Hi Pete,

I always think that when you cannot do a job yourself (for reasons of time, expertise, inclination etc...) then you should look to get help from elsewhere. In that respect a broker is no different to a plumber, a hair dresser or indeed a delivery skipper. It sounds to me like you have the time and dedication to present and market your own yacht.

Perhaps give yourself a set time period before you call in professional help?!

Good luck,

Pete
 
fwiw, my first boat was a 16' gaff cutter. I sold her in 2001; she was on brokerage in Hamble for 3-4 months with no interest at all. Moved her (physically) to Foxs in Ipswich and she sold in days (almost hours). What I learned from that was that you have to drive the right traffic to sell (or it was just right time, right place)
 
I've sold four boats now, all in reasonable time (less than 2 weeks to a few months), by building a simple web site and linking to it from the obvious places - Apollo Duck, Boats & Outboards, ebay & also some not so obvious - Gumtree, Preloved, Oodle. Used RYA & MCA bills of sale for the transfers of ownership. I think it works well for smaller/lower value boats - the ones I've sold ranged from a few thousand to early 20's thousand, probably less well the more expensive you get. You have a bit more flexibility with price if you sell privately but I'd undercut any others of same make/model/condition/level of equipment available at the same time. Obviously present the boat as immaculately as it can be and you won't go far wrong. Here's one of the sites I did:

http://miura.moonfruit.com/
 
Pete,

I'd say you don't need a broker.

I do think the class association should be your first stop.

She's a known design, not old, very attractive to all levels of experience.

Put together a good package with as many photo's as you can with all the info including maintenance, kit revised, changed or upgraded, a full inventory right down to spares, winter cradle / supports, boom tents, covers.

List all electronics & nav gear in one paragraph.

Ground tackle.

Sail wardrobe inc makes and ages.

You may find websites you can upload this to.

Just for info, here's a little example I only came across today...

A fellow Anderson fan PM'd me today with a link to an Anderson for sale on E-Bay.

I've never heard from this owner, not a member of the association.

That's a shame, as he's asking a stupidly low price even for an early Mk1 less desirable A22; I offer the facility to all members that I'll place an ad' on the class website for them if & when the time comes, the last good example for sale there went within hours, not days...

I get enquiries about available boats at least a few times every week.

Also there's an issue with forestay attachment, as I haven't sent info to this bod it implies the boat isn't modified, he would have got this info; not joining the association for any design implies a lack of care about the boat.

So while I doubt you'd use E-Bay, I think my little message is clear, make all contact you can with Cornish Crabbers or whatever they call themselves now, particularly the association.

Also, I know someone who put his boat on Lymington Town Quay with a 'for sale' sign in the rigging; it worked within 2 days.

If doing this be sure to put a phone no. on the sign, for people who are dithering and want to call you later, or don't have the time to talk there and then.

It's a shame to lose such a pretty, characterful boat, but I can easily understand your comment re capability.
 
Seajet said:
I do think the class association should be your first stop.
Click to expand...

As far as I'm aware, there isn't one, although Crabbers themselves might do a little of that kind of thing. There's a moribund forum or two on the Web, which I might as well post a link on, but that's it as far as I know.

Don't need any particular advice on Web hosting, thanks, I started doing that kind of thing over a 28k modem (and this isn't an invitation to the bang-rocks-together-for-ones-and-zeros brigade :) )

Pete
 
prv said:
As far as I'm aware, there isn't one, although Crabbers themselves might do a little of that kind of thing. There's a moribund forum or two on the Web, which I might as well post a link on, but that's it as far as I know.

Don't need any particular advice on Web hosting, thanks, I started doing that kind of thing over a 28k modem (and this isn't an invitation to the bang-rocks-together-for-ones-and-zeros brigade :) )

Pete
Click to expand...

I thought Zagato mentioned one when buying his Crabber 24 recently - surely there's some crossover ?
 
Seajet said:
Also, I know someone who put his boat on Lymington Town Quay with a 'for sale' sign in the rigging; it worked within 2 days.
Click to expand...

Do you know, it actually hadn't occurred to me to hang a for-sale sign on the boat herself. How daft is that? Thanks.

(I'd remove it before viewings though, always looks a little naff when you want to be imagining the boat as your own)

Seajet said:
It's a shame to lose such a pretty, characterful boat, but I can easily understand your comment re capability.
Click to expand...

It's a real shame. I'm still not 100% sure I want to do it - or at least I keep thinking I want one more season out of her first. She's perfect for what she's designed for, exploring an area like the Solent (or somewhere like the Fal and nearby harbours), especially the shallow bits. She has a surprising turn of speed when everything lines up right, but what she won't do is slice upwind through a moderate sea, and if you want to travel further afield (and I do) then sometimes you're going to need to do that.

Pete
 
I've sold both privately and through a broker.

FWIW, if you are close, you've nothing to lose by trying privately.

On the other hand, its a lot of work, attending viewings and sorting paperwork, that a good broker will make a lot easier.

If you can find a good broker, it will help make it a lot less time consuming. I used forumite Jonic, who was superb.
 
I would say that if you can put together a good web page with good photo's (always amazes me how rubbish some photo's are on some brokers sites) and have the time to deal with enquires, then go for it yourself.

I have just sold my boat (4th one I've sold) and I know a broker could not have got the same result. I would also suggest that you don'tstick to the "normal" rules used by brokers. Take them out for a sea trial, don't ask for a deposit, you could even offer to pay for the lift onto the transport (if required).

The only fly in the ointment selling yourself is offering the buyer (and yourself) some security regards the money. A broker would say that's where he comes in (at his x%), however I use my solicitor to handle the transaction of funds (assuming that it's more than might be reasonable to acept in cash)

It's not that difficult.... but it can take a bit of time if you want to get your price.
 
prv said:
Do you know, it actually hadn't occurred to me to hang a for-sale sign on the boat herself. How daft is that? Thanks.

(I'd remove it before viewings though, always looks a little naff when you want to be imagining the boat as your own)



It's a real shame. I'm still not 100% sure I want to do it - or at least I keep thinking I want one more season out of her first. She's perfect for what she's designed for, exploring an area like the Solent (or somewhere like the Fal and nearby harbours), especially the shallow bits. She has a surprising turn of speed when everything lines up right, but what she won't do is slice upwind through a moderate sea, and if you want to travel further afield (and I do) then sometimes you're going to need to do that.

Pete
Click to expand...

Maybe for the sake of keeping a boat you seem to love, a burst of quiet engine at certain times might be worth it ?
 
Shuggy said:
That's interesting logic.
Click to expand...

Shuggy,

why 'interesting logic' ?

It follows that if one cares about ones' boat, one will want to know the news / modifications / history / possibly be in contact with other owners.

In the case of the Anderson 22 class where I run the owners association as a loss making labour of love, I can warn people of the only defect on the boat and how to fix it, have also carried out the fix for people unable to do it themselves.

Please tell me how wishing to get info including how to fix ones' boat, photo's and descriptions of modifications, news of similar boats' travels, meet people of a similar mind etc is an any way illogical ?
 
PaulGooch said:
So because i'm not in the "Merry Fisher owners club" i don't care about my boat ?

What a load of cobblers.
Click to expand...

I am presuming this chap still has me on 'ignore' as claimed, fine by me; what's the 'merry fishers owners club', though, something by Gilbert and Sullivan or a dodgy night club in Brighton ?

If he's referring to an owners association that's his loss, I doubt the other owners will be losing sleep over it or indeed be grateful if people like that should try to join. :rolleyes:
 
Seajet said:
I am presuming this chap still has me on 'ignore' as claimed, fine by me; what's the 'merry fishers owners club', though, something by Gilbert and Sullivan or a dodgy night club in Brighton ?

If he's referring to an owners association that's his loss, I doubt the other owners will be losing sleep over it or indeed be grateful if people like that should try to join. :rolleyes:
Click to expand...

If you're any indication of the type of people in owners clubs/associations, then i'm doubly glad i have no inclination to join one.
 
prv said:
Not quite yet, but in the not-too-distant future, it looks like we'll be selling KS and switching to a less interesting and attractive, but more capable, boat. When the time comes, I'm undecided as to whether to use a broker or sell directly. I'm sure the forum will not agree, but I'd be interested to hear the arguments :)

Broker or no, I will be putting together a web site with plenty of pictures and information. I also live near the boat and would have no problem taking potential buyers over her. The plan is to put her in the yard and do the antifoul before putting her on the market - it's not a hard job (she's not big) and she always looks fantastic afterwards. She also looks bigger out of the water :)

Not too worried about the mechanics of sale; we have a couple of old bills of sale plus the one to us, to demonstrate that we own the boat, an original VAT receipt in case anyone is worried about that, and at the end of the day it's not a complicated transaction.

The main benefit I'd expect to get from a broker is in finding potential buyers, and possibly in weeding out obvious timewasters. But is that worth the percentage that a broker will cost?

Thoughts?

Pete
Click to expand...

PRV

I'm a broker so here's some advice if you go down the DIY route.

The markets is sluggish at the moment so pricing and presentation is everything. Try to research actual achieved (not asking) prices to set your price point.

Great idea to have her antifouled and in the yard. Give her a good polish too and remove as much personal kit as you can. Make her look as inviting as possible to a new owner. Remove any rust on deck fittings and trim any frayed ends on ropes etc. Consider replacing any tired running rigging.

Write a detailed inventory and in the main description make sure this "sells" the boat.

Photograph the interior to a high standard and consider a video.

Advertise in as many places as you can and ensure she comes up on search engines when people are searching by price or length not just model.

Many buyers start with a budget and length and may not have considered your model so won't necessarily be searching by name.

It sounds like your paperwork is in order.

Buyers will want original documents with at least five years worth of Bills of Sale. Current in date registration. Original (not copy) VAT invoice showing clear reference to the boat, a VAT number and the amount of VAT accounted for and if applicable the RCD certificate. (usually in the owners manual)

Scammers and timewasters are legion at the moment so protect your email address if you can, or set up a new one just for the boat sale.

The big red flag is someone offering to pay unseen, especially if they are gong to pay extra for delivery etc.

Unfortunately there are also a lot of fender kickers around who will start off enthusiastically asking for details and wanting to view and then either not show up or refuse to answer phone calls or emails. It's currently worse than I have ever known it.

When you get a viewing go down to the boat beforehand, air her and have the lights on and all the instruments running so you can demonstrate them working.

When you get an acceptable offer use a sale and purchase agreement. Ensure everybody knows at the outset how the deposit and survey time frame will work and what will happen if there are issues after survey. This must be carefully explained as it is at the survey stage where misunderstandings can get ugly. Some buyers are less happy handing over deposits to private individuals they do not know, so you could use a Broker to hold the deposit in Escrow or a Marine Solicitor. The agreement should set out a time frame for the payment of the balance.

It goes without saying do not hand over keys or papers until you have cleared funds. The safest method is CHAPS transfer to your account.

Best of luck.
 
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