SNSM lifeboat lost

[bignick]

It's a Pantocarene hull design
Lots of lifeboats like that, and supposed to be very good in extreme weather.
I wonder if the outcome had been different if the new one had been available, modern designs have much higher levels of system redundancy.

 

[grumpy_o_g]

It's a Pantocarene hull design
Lots of lifeboats like that, and supposed to be very good in extreme weather.
I wonder if the outcome had been different if the new one had been available, modern designs have much higher levels of system redundancy.

I suspect it would have had stronger windows these days and I think all the services have learnt more about managing to keep engines going in extreme conditions. We tend to forget how much CAD and stress modelling have changed and improved designs in such a short space of time, especially for things like windows, doors, etc. which are surprisingly complex to model. As always it's a chain of events that led to the tragedy and in those conditions it wouldn't take much in those conditions. Like others I'm wondering what hell any boat was doing out in those conditions to need rescuing in the first place.

My sympathies and respect to all those involved, including (or perhaps especially) the families.

 

[grumpy_o_g]

Some interesting stuff about it at https://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/Étrave_polyédrique

As far as I can see, the idea is that in calm conditions you have a normal planing hull and when the waves get bigger the beak pierces through them, giving a smoother ride with less pitching.

Safehaven (those Irish folk who build ludicrously capable pilot boats) used the concept on their latest record attempt boat. There's some video of it on YouTube showing it being almost contemptuous of horrible conditions. Actually it's worth watching and remembering that this is an up-to-minute boat with no compromises needed for rescues and certainly no way it get near a beach of course. The wind was also a fraction on that in Storm Miguel which gives you some idea of just what that French lifeboat had to cope with.

https://www.safehavenmarine.com/sin...and-their-Transatlantic-record-attempt-update

 

[[70521]]

RIP for those who lost their lives.

 

[fisherman]

Speaking to the ex cox, 1988 to 2012, of the Lizard Tyne class. They went into a wave off the slip very badly into an easterly gale, heard a crack but carried on no apparent damage until many hours later in daylight found there was some, not much water swilling about the wheelhouse. Later found the w/h front, which rakes forward, had been set in and returned, had dismounted some internal fittings to do with airflow to the windows, sheared the bolts which they never found, and some windows were leaking slightly, but none broke.

 

[Sybarite]

Lower protruding section is there to reduce slamming, I would guess.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mfHkHjChE18

This video explains the advantages of the pantocarene hull.

As an aside, here 1300 hp drives this 67' boat at 28 knots, same hp as 45' Shannon.

The pilot boats operating in the Thames estuary claim a £50k fuel saving per year and per boat compared with previous generation.

 

[fisherman]

As an aside, here 1300 hp drives this 67' boat at 28 knots, same hp as 45' Shannon.

.

I think it was agreed not to go down that route on this occasion.

 

[Motor_Sailor]

As an aside, here 1300 hp drives this 67' boat at 28 knots, same hp as 45' Shannon.

It's an 'aside' which even the most religious zealot would think was inappropriate to pursue in this thread.
Shame on you.

 

[Iain C]

Those photos of the LB heading out are incredibly sad. The seas look horrific...however when I have taken photos of what I thought of really big conditions when I have been sailing, they always look like ripples on a millpond, so the conditions that lifeboat were in must have been truly appalling applying the same logic.

I think a lot of us would love to be a lifeboatman, but those sad pictures show what started out as what could have been an adventure tinged with some doubt and fear rapidly became everyone's worst nightmare. Incredibly sad, incredibly brave and selfless people. RIP.

 

[Kukri]

Well said, IainC

 

[fisherman]

We had a recurring problem with one of these
https://www.google.com/search?q=cyg...UIECgB&biw=1280&bih=910#imgrc=yKSTvFaEYqduOM:

The huge flat foredeck, plus raked forward windows, gave the sea nowhere to go when it dumped a breaker on us on Hayle bar. The wider central window shattered. Next time we had a laminated glass, it folded and came through. Then we fitted an ally T bar across the laminated glass, which is too wide and unsupported. Just an idea of how much pressure there is in even a moderate sea.

 

[Deleted member 36384]

It's an 'aside' which even the most religious zealot would think was inappropriate to pursue in this thread.
Shame on you.

I disagree with your view. I am sure Sybarite offered the information in good faith in support of a point being made about hull shape.

I actually believe that thread drift, comment and speculation enriches a thread and makes it more useful. Restricting comments to those that you, or others feels appropriate to the OP is limiting.

There is nothing worse than censorship to kill information transfer.

 

[Motor_Sailor]

There is nothing worse than censorship to kill information transfer.

If you need 'information transfer' about Sybarite's pet subject, you can read any number of extremely long and heated threads going back quite some time.

But to reignite them here will see them inevitably degenerate into the same old slanging match. Nothing new will be added, and a discussion of budgets or 'value for money' or equipment and boat choices in my view would be highly unseemly played out against the background of the death of these lifeboatmen.

If you want to wage a faux war against internet censorship you are free to wade right in.
Or start another thread.
Or read all the old ones.

 

[Balbas]

I disagree with your view. I am sure Sybarite offered the information in good faith in support of a point being made about hull shape.

I actually believe that thread drift, comment and speculation enriches a thread and makes it more useful. Restricting comments to those that you, or others feels appropriate to the OP is limiting.

There is nothing worse than censorship to kill information transfer.

If you need 'information transfer' about Sybarite's pet subject, you can read any number of extremely long and heated threads going back quite some time.

But to reignite them here will see them inevitably degenerate into the same old slanging match. Nothing new will be added, and a discussion of budgets or 'value for money' or equipment and boat choices in my view would be highly unseemly played out against the background of the death of these lifeboatmen.

If you want to wage a faux war against internet censorship you are free to wade right in.
Or start another thread.
Or read all the old ones.

The original thread drift was mine. I asked about the hull shape and when doing so I did wonder whether it was sensible to do it in this thread, but as I deliberately asking whether the new hull would have been safer - note I am still not! - then I considered it fair enough given that a picture of the two boats had been posted and that comment had already been made about the new boat being in service (but presumably either unsuitable, unserviceable or in some other way undesirable given the variables involved).

I don't have any involvement with the RNLI (well there was that one time...) but have been involved with other (land based) rescue organisations, so I've an interest in circumstances where safety crews go out with kit on which their lives depend. I've obviously got an interest in boats and sailing and coastguards and rescue services. I don't see it as being disrespectful to ask questions about the kit and equipment used.

I am sorry if you disagree, but there we have it.

Note at no point have I - or anyone that I've seen - had anything other than absolute admiration for the crew going out in that weather. And I think everyone has displayed dismay and horror at the outcome and wished we could do anything to turn back time and stop this awful event happening.

 

[Motor_Sailor]

I am sorry if you disagree, but there we have it.

No disagreement there - but Sybarite added an 'aside' opening up his well worn argument about the comparative merits of RNLI boats and those in the SNSM. He knows this to be both highly contentious and fully aware of how the resulting debate will develop.

That, and that alone was challenged as being unnecessary in this thread.

 

[Sybarite]

It's an 'aside' which even the most religious zealot would think was inappropriate to pursue in this thread.
Shame on you.

The thread had drifted as to the advantages of a pantocarene hull. I answered in that context.

 

[Sybarite]

If you need 'information transfer' about Sybarite's pet subject, you can read any number of extremely long and heated threads going back quite some time.

But to reignite them here will see them inevitably degenerate into the same old slanging match. Nothing new will be added, and a discussion of budgets or 'value for money' or equipment and boat choices in my view would be highly unseemly played out against the background of the death of these lifeboatmen.

If you want to wage a faux war against internet censorship you are free to wade right in.
Or start another thread.
Or read all the old ones.

You didn't react to post #10.

I wonder why not?

 

[LittleSister]

Sybarite made a comment (explicitly 'as an aside') way back in post no. 46. Those who didn't like it could have ignored it. Instead most of the subsequent 11 posts have been a thread drift about thread drift.

 

[Motor_Sailor]

You didn't react to post #10.

I wonder why not?

Because at the time I had no idea what a "7 class RNIL lifeboat" might be.

But having now realised it was cryptic instead of simply gibberish, I'm happy to accept it too was unnecessary.

 

[Seven Spades]

Because at the time I had no idea what a "7 class RNIL lifeboat" might be.

But having now realised it was cryptic instead of simply gibberish, I'm happy to accept it too was unnecessary.

Why do you say that. I made a perfectly reasonable comment. I too was appalled at the loss of life but i felt that their equipment was not up to the job and made the reasonable comment that a Seven class was what was needed in those conditions. One person subsequently objected. I am not sure who gets to decide what is and isn't to be discussed here. I am not sure what sin I have committed.

Personally I find it extremely odd that when a tragedy occurs some one here decides that it is not appropriate to discuss possible causes or solutions. We would never have learned anything from Fastnet 79 if the same view had prevailed.

I shall say no more.