Smoking !!!

[byron]

With the rain comes a marked reduction of movement of boats and who can blame people. What hit home to me last night was how the rain coupled with the smoking ban has hit pubs. Saturday night and my local was empty, literally not a soul was there, the rain kept boaters and smokers away. Lord only knows how they will survive come winter.
Personally I don't see why pubs/clubs can't have a Snug for smokers and a bar for non-smokers. Change Public Bar/Saloon bar.

 

[nickcred]

I was out for a friends leaving do on Friday in our town centre (first time I have been in since the ban for a drink.) The bar and club we went to were noticeably quieter than before. Also people were having to line up to be let out a side door to smoke both in the bar and the club. In one pub without any outside space I had never iny 20 years seen it so quiet. What was a packed pub before was reduced to maybe 20 people. You had your hand stamped in other bars and the club so they knew to let you back in. It looked awful and conversations were interupted mid flow when one, two or three or four of the group went to smoke.

Why we did not follow Spains example and licence a proportion of bars and clubs smoking and a portion as non smoking is beyond me. Most of our bars had non smoking at the bar for the sake fo the staff for the last few years and I would think that proper ventilation would be cheaper than the loss of business these guys are suffering.

 

[byron]

The Tories have definate vote winners with their promises of dumping inheritance tax and the latest stupidity "HIPS" which no one including the professionals want.
perhaps a loosening of the anti-smoking laws will also win them a few more. After all 60% of adults are smokers.Tthe figure that the government put out includes children which distorts the statistics.

 

[TrueBlue]

It saddens me,

considerably that so much of our current legislation, some of which in essence is eminently sensible has got wrecked by possibly well meaning legislators in the Back Office turning the whole thing round and destroying businesses and lumping huge costs on the rest of us.

For example:-

(1) destroying businesses
As you say, Byron, pubs are declining and the smoking ban will hasten that. I can't for the life of me see why provision could not have been made for positively ventilated rooms for smokers (as in a Laboratory fume cupboard). That satisfies the concept of the legislation, but makes provision for folks with their particular affliction.

I'm sorry for smokers, but what really concerns me is that people are losing the opportunity to interact with others. A pub is a meeting place, a social environment. We all are encapsulated in our houses, boats, cars. Social venues are on the decline, nobody goes to Church. I don't go to pubs 'cos I don't want to lose my license and I can't walk safely to my nearest pub. Soon I won't be able to do that by boat either.

I'm sure the reduction in social intercourse has a helluva lot to do with our violent society.

(2) Increase in costs
I have just had a new oil boiler fitted. What the installer did was precisely that which I would have done myself (but much, much quicker and neater). What sticks in my craw is that there is pressure from his trade association, firstly to fudge the efficiency figures as to the type of boiler which I was told was the only type permitted (-cahones-) and secondly a lot of additional items - also not essential from the building regs: standpoint. Cost me a grand more. Benefit to me none; to the environment minimal.

I'm afraid our British way of turning the other cheek is now working to our disadvantage Big Time. It's time we made authority and our fellows aware of our displeasure:-

So I'll be honking my horn at cars and boats who cut me up.
I'll be completing Consultations negatively.

It would make a jot of difference, of course, but if enough folks do similarly, then just, just, something may eventually happen.


Aaaahhhhh; I feel better already!

 

[chuckaduck]

I find the whole thing flawed !

before the ban most offices etc already had a non smoking policy anyway and some even had designated smoking rooms

some pubs and restaurants had smoking areas as well

before the ban people had freedom of choice ie they didnt have to work in or visit a pub

It would be sensible to have air conditioned designated smoking areas in pubs but in the governments wisdom this must be too simple and sensible

with the ban in force pubs with food are still going to do good trade but the local community pubs are already suffering these pubs pay rent and rates based on the amount of turnover they do but these have not been reduced consequently many will go under

In other countries like France and Spain the smoking ban has not been tolerated but us brits have done nothing

shame as once we were a great nation /forums/images/graemlins/frown.gif

 

[pheran]

[ QUOTE ]
After all 60% of adults are smokers..........................

[/ QUOTE ] Where on earth did you get this figure from, Byron. For the want of a reasonably large but accessible sample, I went through my Address Book. Not all the entries are boaters, of course, in fact the only thing they have in common is that they are known to me. So they should represent a fairly random selection. The bottom line is that only 7% are adult smokers!

I have considerable sympathy for smokers (being a reformed character myself) and I appreciate the courtesy shown by some of them in not smoking near me and my bad chest (the result of smoking, no doubt). Like others, I'm sure a more equitable solution to the problem could have been found but that wouldn't have suited the heavy hand of regulation so beloved by NuLabor and I can't really see the clock being turned back now.

 

[nickcred]

Agree with all that has been said.

Our company has had a smoking ban in place for12 years. At one stage we had indoor smoking room, then we moved to an outside only shelter and smoking only allowed in the Bar after 5.30 pm.

I am the licencee of the bar which is only open for a few hours in the evenings for people to have a quick drink after work. More importantly it was the place where sales and non sales departments interacted, whinged and whined at each other and then shared a drink and interacted socially. We have kept the bar open for that reason alone so far. The non smokers claimed they would use the bar if it was non smoking. Where are they now ? takings have dropped 50% as it is 2 floors down to the outside smokers can indulge. 70% of the customers smoke. This on top of the new licensing laws which saw the cost of the licence increase ten fold as they base it in part on the rateable value of the building and we are in a huge office building. Its killing us.

If it keeps up I will only be opening the bar possibly 2 days a week and more likely be forced to close it completely. I employ 3 bar staff who will be out of work if that happens. We are not even trying to run at a profit just to cover costs.

In comparsion our offices in Germany and Sweden have smoking stations throughout the building which incorporate ashtrays which extinguish the cigarette and efficient venting to extract smoke. Even the non smokers admit you can not smell smoke anywhere in the buildings.

As you say the French ignore the ban, The Spanish have a sensible licensing approach. Portugal are imlementing soon and that will be interesting as they currently smoke even under no smoking signs /forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif

More and more legislation aimed at "health and safety" is restricting our life styles, being used as a job creation exercise and turning this once great nation into what it has become. I am failing to see any improvement in behaviour or lifestyle in this nanny state.

Do I feel better now after that rant - no - because it seems to be getting worse and worse and as always the majority will sit back,wring their handds and say - what can we do.

Now I am going outside to have a cigarette and calm down /forums/images/graemlins/laugh.gif
and if i trip over a paving stone on the patio I can probably sue my wife for not putting a warning sign up and the manufacturers of the cigarettes for causing me to get smoke in my eyes. What was the saying "only in America" now it should be "only in the UK"

 

[DWT]

I have some sympathy with all that has been said, but for me the smoking ban is a delight and means that I can now go into pubs where I would not have dreamt of going near before 1 July. The nearest to my office is a small old fashioned pub which had "smoking all areas" signs on the doors. Half an hour in there left me stinking of tobacco and I have boycotted any events arranged in there for some time now.

My dislike of being anywhere near a smoker in an enclosed space means that in recent years I only ever visit a pub to eat and then only if I am sure there will be a large no smoking area. I rarely go to a pub just for a drink. This may start to change now, but it will be slow. Last week on a trip downriver I went into a pub in Windsor while my wife and daughter went shopping. This is the first time I have done this for a long time. We also had a pleasant evening in the club at Penton Hook. I suspect that before the ban this would have been a no go area for us.

As for the number of smokers and experience of Ireland and Scotland which have had the ban for much longer than us, well the figures seem to change depending which side of the argument you are on. It is a case of lies, damned lies and statistics. However the majority of my acquaintances are all very happy with the ban.

 

[maybh1]

Well put DWT - I am in complete agreement

 

[l'escargot]

[ QUOTE ]
.... After all 60% of adults are smokers.Tthe figure that the government put out includes children which distorts the statistics.

[/ QUOTE ]
Where did you get that figure from? According to National Statistics which are the ones the Government use, only 24% of adults aged 16 or over are smokers (2005 figures). Here.

 

[byron]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
.... After all 60% of adults are smokers.Tthe figure that the government put out includes children which distorts the statistics.

[/ QUOTE ]
Where did you get that figure from? According to National Statistics which are the ones the Government use, only 24% of adults aged 16 or over are smokers (2005 figures). Here.

[/ QUOTE ]

Then the statistics are B.S.
Just ask the Publicans, Bingo Hall operators & Club Owners, read the financial pages of the media where they reckon on 1 in 4 pubs will close over the next 12-18 months ask me, 90% of my staff smoke, 65% of my local's customers smoke (according to the Landlord a non-smoker).
Never mind, when I am voted in as Dictator of the World I will allow Pubs to have Snugs, put all the 'elf and safety' lot into homes for the bewildered, bring back corporal punishment, shoot Restauranteurs who serve Nouvelle Cuisine, castrate drivers who hog the middle lane of motorways and bring back red deisel for boats.

 

[nickcred]

You got my vote then Byron /forums/images/graemlins/cool.gif /forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif

 

[pheran]

Dictator of the World?? Best walk before you start to run so I suggest you kick off your political career by standing as Mayor of London. That would give both Ken and Boris something to worry about /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif

 

[byron]

[ QUOTE ]
Dictator of the World?? Best walk before you start to run so I suggest you kick off your political career by standing as Mayor of London. That would give both Ken and Boris something to worry about /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif

[/ QUOTE ]
My mate Boris, stand against him? Never! He's the only politician who has ½ a brain which he disguises to trap the unwary.

I will ban you from standing on street corners with your hood up and hurling verbal abuse at passers-by. I've seen you on Tele, your hood up doesn't fool me.

 

[pheran]

Gonna gizza a hug then, mate? /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif

 

[apollo]

I'm a bit of a Boris fan myself!!

(He helped a friend of mine receive the Cancer treatment he deserved)

 

[l'escargot]

[ QUOTE ]
... ask me, 90% of my staff smoke, 65% of my local's customers smoke (according to the Landlord a non-smoker)...

[/ QUOTE ]
I think your sample group may not be actually representative of the real world...?

 

[byron]

Went to Biggles today at Denham Airfield for lunch. Because of this thread I asked Manuel about smokers, he reckons that around 55% of his are. Then he observed that I shouldn't take any view of todays clientele as there were rather more Smokers than usual. I thought it because it was a nice day that everyone was outside, then I realised, I was the only dude not smoking.

 

[DogsBody]

Just had a quick count up around my office - 6/30 smoke i.e. 20%.

I wonder if certain types of job appeal more to smokers? All the 6 smokers above work on our sales desk.

 

[byron]

[ QUOTE ]


I wonder if certain types of job appeal more to smokers? All the 6 smokers above work on our sales desk.

[/ QUOTE ]

Good point and one I can thoroughly accept.