Smelly Upholstery From Damp

[CaptainBob]

Repeated buildup of small amounts of condensation on the walls of the cabin we sleep in, although always dried thoroughly immediately its discovered, has lead to the upholstery which contacts it having a bit of an unpleasant smell. If I rub my hand along the edge where contact is made, then sniff my hand, it smells a bit reminiscent of a teenagers armpit after P.E.

Can't smell it all unless you stick your nose in it or scratch and sniff, but I'd prefer to be rid of it before it gets worse.

Could do with suggestions on how to get rid of the smell initially, and how to avoid the condensation in the first place.

I know there's various products you can put under the cushions to avoid dampness beneath them, but we don't seem to suffer from that - just at the places where the cushions meet the walls.

Thank you!

 

[sarabande]

not enough ventilation, simple. Water condenses on cabin sides, runs down and soaks into outer edge of cushions, does not (cannot) evaporate.

You must either prevent water vapour condensing on the sides, or give the cushions a gap to the side so that they don't contact the drippy bits. Water will then trickle further down into the boat.

Or you could leave a roll of sacrificial cloth next to the cushions and the side so that the roll absorbs the water, and then can be dried out.

Prevention of condensation first of all, through. Trays of silica gel are USELESS. You need an active demistifier thingy, or loads of dry heat from a stove or fan.

 

[wilkinsonsails]

We cured that problem with a 4mm closed cell foam glued to the hull. It stopped all condensation on the hull and made it more comfortable to touch on cold nights.Cindy

 

[Nealo]

Re prevention, I honestly don't know how anyone manages without some form of heat on a boat and yes I know the vast majority of cheaper boats don't have this "luxury" but a build up of condensation is virtually guaranteed without it. I suppose those lucky enough to have a marina berth can use shore power but if you don't, it's a case of splashing out on an expensive diesel/gas system, or charcoal/solid fuel which, as a previous thread has illustrated, can be done to a budget.

Re the smell, I clean upholstery for a living and am often asked if there is something you can "spray on" which will get rid of an unpleasant smell. Yes there are many of these you can buy at the supermarket but basically they just act ask a masking agent. You must destroy the source of the smell which is basically nasty bacteria which has found a nice source of food and water and has made itself very comfortable, sometimes so comfortable that nothing will shift it except destruction by fire. Bleach is very good, but I wouldn't suggest washing your upholstery in it! If you can remove your cushion covers and don't think they will shrink, just give them a good detergent wash, but I would add a bit of good old household ammonia for good measure - it will do the fabric no harm at all. Put the covers back on whilst they are still damp. If the covers won't remove, you can either get a professional to clean them or try sponging them clean. If you do this I would use a very dilute solution of a "woolsafe" detergent and again add a bit of household ammonia, no more than 1 part to 4 parts water. If you can cope with the smell ammonia is a great cleaning agent because it "self neutralises", in layman's terms it doesn't leave a residue.

 

[ean_p]

Why do you suggest putting the covers back on while still damp please?

 

[GandT]

I did a practical experiment on this once. On weather like this, a couple sleeping in a cabin with the heating on, can generate about 1 lit of condensation, especially if the cabin is not ventilated. I believe this figure can magnify 3 fold if its a gas heater. You really need a throughput of air - open a forehatch and the main hatch a bit to encourage an exchange of air through the boat. In still wind conditions, a fan helps to exchange this air through the boat.

 

[PCUK]

3 rules to prevent condensation - Ventilation - Ventilation - Ventilation!
Also that new Febreze Wash stuff works really well. Spray on lightly and leave - does the job on the cat's litter tray so must be good!!!!!

 

[CaptainBob]

Cheers for the replies. We're getting to be experts in condensation avoidance while minimising expense.

Running any kind of heater other than one which pulls new air through doesn't seem to help at all.

Running the Eberspacher on low doesn't help a great deal, chokes up the gauze and costs a lot in diesel.

So we choose no heating at night, and a wide hatch. Our hatch opens under our upturned hard tender which gives a good amount of rain (snow at the moment) protection but large amounts of ventilation, so long as it's not blowing too hard.

We can't also leave open the main hatch as if the wind comes from the stern we'll get a load of rain/snow in the saloon.

This seems to be the best we can do, but we do still, every 2 or 3 days, get this slight dampness along the edge of the cushions we sleep on where they hit the wall. At which point I lift everything up and either leave it all day with the hatch wide open (if possible) or if not (rain/snow) then all locked up with the dehumidifier running hard for a few hours. This clears is very quickly.

I think we need something under the cushions and along the sides of the cushions to allow air underneath. And some household ammonia by the sound of it.

 

[Tom Price]

Cushion smell

You haven't told us what your upholstery is made of, nor what the cabin walls are lined with. It does make a diference.

 

[CaptainBob]

Walls are lined with standard Westerly Headlining material backed with some very thin grey foam. I mean thin - like 1mm.

The cushions are foam, covered in some kind of man-made soft short pile stuff.

 

[snooks]

Why don't you leave the dehumidifier on overnight?

We do, it makes a real difference, it also keeps the boat warm (well above freezing)

You need two holes for proper ventilation. One in, one out. You could always get a bit of canvas and attach it over the companionway with a bit of bungee so you can leave that open to allow proper ventilation

 

[stuhaynes]

Everyone has a valid point on this subject. We've been LA's since 2001 and have still not entirely fixed it, but we are much further forward than we were even a year ago. Ventilation is the key. Briefly this is what we've done, and the end result.

Started with the original (very old) gas fire. Total nightmare.
Changed the nightmare for another one, a catalytic gas heater. 2nd nightmare, though we still have it 'just in case'.
Stripped the main salon and fitted a solid fuel fire. Bliss! Main cabin dry as a bone, brilliant.
Problem in bow and with the bed. Condensation from the roof (uninsulated) and the bow sides (also uninsulated). Stripped the entire bow, removed the bed, fitted a calorifier under the bed and glued 1/4" carpet to the hull between the ribs. Much better but still get condensation through the exposed ribs (we're wood) and from the roof.
Started leaving portholes ajar for air flow, improvement.
In this cold weather turned on the 500w electric radiator. Improvement.
Fitted a fan between salon and galley bulkhead. Excess heat from solid fuel fire transferred to bow area. Improvement.
Latest thought (apart from the possible noise). The stainless vents on our boat ,can't remember the name and too much snow to check, provide (I believe) 8 square inches of venting each. These are available with a small fan manufactured to fit underneath, inside the boat. With a balance of heat and ventilation, I believe that we can reduce condensation to an acceptable level.

Bear in mind that we are wood and the boat is 60 years old. No modern insulation and given the age of the vessel the wood will have a relatively high moisture content. We are LA's so this subject is very important to us, and we sympathise with anyone who is experiencing what we had to put up with for a long time.

That's it, done, sorry to rattle. (It's me age!). Stu

 

[TiggerToo]

Repeated buildup of small amounts of condensation on the walls of the cabin we sleep in, although always dried thoroughly immediately its discovered, has lead to the upholstery which contacts it having a bit of an unpleasant smell. If I rub my hand along the edge where contact is made, then sniff my hand, it smells a bit reminiscent of a teenagers armpit after P.E.

Can't smell it all unless you stick your nose in it or scratch and sniff, but I'd prefer to be rid of it before it gets worse.

Could do with suggestions on how to get rid of the smell initially, and how to avoid the condensation in the first place.

I know there's various products you can put under the cushions to avoid dampness beneath them, but we don't seem to suffer from that - just at the places where the cushions meet the walls.

Thank you!

From what you say it seems you don't have the ventair sort of mat. Thsi has made a fantastic difference on below mattress/cushion condensation. I did not believe it when we bought it (was sceptical) but it really is fantastic. You get a bit oversize so you can make it go "up the sides", as it were

 

[Tom Price]

Walls are lined with standard Westerly Headlining material backed with some very thin grey foam. I mean thin - like 1mm

My old boat had similar coverings but losing adhesion in the fo'csle. Pulled it all off and cleaned the grp behind, then called in a professional to line it with . . . carpet.
And it works!

Sleeping up for'ard the hatch is on on first notch, and even with a gas heater in the cabin the plain cushions, covered with what feels like cotton, don't acquire any smell at all. When away from the boat everything is closed up - I don't even lift the cushions. No humidifier, just a 'black heat' electric unit on frost setting, and a tubular greenhouse heater in the engine bay.

Lucky maybe?

 

[CaptainBob]

Thank you all. It's nice to know that although I'm damp and smelly, I'm not alone

Snooks - I'd happily leave on the dehumidifier except to be effective we have to close all hatches and it makes for what seems like lower air quality. It's so nice to be able to breathe nice fresh air. Also, the Meaco dessicant dehumidifier we have is really quite loud unless it's in low/saver mode. And then it extracts about a teaspoon over night so seems a bit pointless. I have no experience with the refrigerant types, perhaps they're quieter? Loving the Meaco though with its 7 litres a day extraction capacity - great for rapid drying when desperate.

TiggerToo - that Ventair stuff sounds like the way forward. Did you get it from Toomer & Hayter? They're the only online vendor I can find. They're quoting £34 for a sheet 2m x 1m. Think I'd need about four of those to do the whole cabin! Any cheaper alternatives, or suppliers?

Thanks for the PM's Tom. Cheers for your help.

 

[wilkinsonsails]

Kayospuce do another product slightly cheaper than Ventaire easier to cut too.
Cindy

 

[TiggerToo]

.

TiggerToo - that Ventair stuff sounds like the way forward. Did you get it from Toomer & Hayter? They're the only online vendor I can find. They're quoting £34 for a sheet 2m x 1m. Think I'd need about four of those to do the whole cabin! Any cheaper alternatives, or suppliers?

Thanks for the PM's Tom. Cheers for your help.

Bob, I don't remember off the top of my head what the cost was. It was not cheap, but not OTT either. There are loads of suppliers and also alternatives. C&J are one. But I got some after visiting SIBS last year. I can try and look up my old receipts tonight and let you know. But it is definitely worth it. I am a convert.

 

[V1701]

Another vote for carpet, just glue to the sides but to very thin ply and attach this to the roof. You could use the thin foil bubble wrap insulation (B&Q) between the roof and the ply with carpet on. That and ventilate a bit should do it...

 

[snooks]

Snooks - I'd happily leave on the dehumidifier except to be effective we have to close all hatches and it makes for what seems like lower air quality. It's so nice to be able to breathe nice fresh air. Also, the Meaco dessicant dehumidifier we have is really quite loud unless it's in low/saver mode. And then it extracts about a teaspoon over night so seems a bit pointless. I have no experience with the refrigerant types, perhaps they're quieter? Loving the Meaco though with its 7 litres a day extraction capacity - great for rapid drying when desperate.

We also have the Maeco DW12 something-or-other too

Last winter (and during the summer when it was raining), we leave the dehumidifier on the Low setting overnight and move it into the heads (which is aft of our forward bunk/cabin) so it blows are forward with all the doors on the boat open. It collects between 0.5lt and 1lt of water overnight.

As our hatch is over our heads and we don't have a cover for it, rain splashes in when it's ajar so it remains closed all the way through the night. The air is dryer through the night and it takes a bit of getting used to, but it's the price we pay for a damp free boat.

Leaving all the doors open helps the air circulate and there is never any condensation on the glass windows in the morning, well not until the kettle has boiled

Agree with you about the Meaco, we took it up to Scotland with us and it proved invaluable, we've dried loads of washing and soggy oilskins overnight using the laundry mode. Probably the best £150 we spent on the boat.

 

[CaptainBob]

Thanks chaps. Will keep playing with a few things. Do let us know about cheap sources for that underlay stuff as I think a solution which doesn't involve running an appliance is preferable if it can be found. Maeco a backup in extreme situations.

An earlier poster mentioned the importance of having two open hatches not just one. That was certainly true when we used to sleep in the aft cabin - in there if we opened both hatches, one was vertically lower than the other, we rarely got condensation. So last night thanks to a lull in the wind I left the main cabin hatch open as well as the one above our V-berth and there was a definite gentle flow of air I guess driven at least partially by the heat produced by us in the cabin. It was a particularly cold one last night, but not a drop of condensation anywhere! Perhaps the atmosphere was lower in humidity so I'm not counting my chickens but I think I'll try to find a way, as suggested, to leave the main hatch open even when it's windy and precipitating.

There's some nice photos of our deck this morning in the sun and snow here if you're interested...

http://www.yacht-forum.co.uk/viewtopic.php?p=886

Thanks again!