Smart regulators

[pcatterall]

Sorry to make 3 posts in succession. Following on from the comments on alternator sizes and the reccomendation about smart regulators.
My Perkins 4108 has a lucas 11AC alternator and I had more or less decided that as it was working ok then a smart regulator would be the best way to get extra power/less engine running.
Question.... how difficult are they to fit, is a lot of knowledge required or will the instructions allow most of us to fit one?
Do they work with or replace the existing regulator? I understand that some alternators have the regulator inside.
Thanks for any advice (no more posts from me this week I promise!)

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[LORDNELSON]

I fitted an adverc about two years ago. No problems and well instructed by the makers - both their written instruction sheets and answers on the telephone were good and pleasant. I had a Hitachi alternator to connect up but I do not think a Lucas should be any more difficult. Its worth telephoning Adverc and having a chat with them.

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[ccscott49]

I kmow the sterling one is reasonably easy to fit, but you do need a test meter and a soldering iron, you also need to remove the alternator, to get inside it. But even then its simple to fit and well worth the effort.

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[scarlett]

I fitted the Stirling last year. The instuctions are so bad that i had to have a nights sleep before continuing, twice. IE. it took three part days. The owner of the business is 'difficult' and he now tells me I have read the instuctions wrongly and been running the device incorrectly for the past 100 hours and possibly damaged my starting battery. When I queried how can you run the device connected to a basic battery when the starting battery is maintanance free type he says you can't.

My new basic 90 aH battery takes two or three hours after heavy use [ 50% full ]to switch his gadget off with a 60 amp charger. Don't expect magic and you will be happy.

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[ccscott49]

Funnily enough, I found the instructions quite straightforward, however I am well known for my illogical thinking! Fitted to a friends boat in about 1 hour, including removing and re-fitting alternator. Transformed the charging regime.

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[snowleopard]

when i fitted my adverc it was all pretty straightforward except that i had to split the alternator casing to solder on an extra lead but the photos and diagrams made it easy. it helped that i knew the wiring of my boat intimately having installed it all myself.

the man who makes the adverc is helpful. the same can't be said of mr sterling.

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[longjohnsilver]

Well it took me the best part of a day!!! And the Sterling chap was an obnoxious rude git! And was it worth it? Definitely not! Waste of money IMHO

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[halcyon]

Missed earlier posts, so sorry for any duplication.
If you have a 11 AC alternator it has a seperate external regulater, the next model had it fitted inside, hence 11 ACR. Both these alternators have a problem, they are generation one and regulate at 13.6 volt +/- .2 volt. This means that you are at a low charge regulation voltage to start with, and thus are only recharging to around 50% capacity. If you go to your local LSUK agent you can get a replacement regulater that runs at 14.2 volt, that will give you around 80% recharge level. These are around the £10/20 mark, and a direct replacement. The other problem is that the 11 AC is around 30 amp output, and you are not going to get much more. If you go round the scrap yards you can find a 18 ACR which are around 60 amp ( from memory ), fit a new regulator as the original would be 13.6 volt. The 18 ACR have a wider stator, the bit between the end castings, the sleeve in the back mounting bracket covers this differance, just tap it with hammer to right length.

All the best.

Brian

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[john_morris_uk]

We have had Sterling regulators fitted on our last two boats. The instructions are not very well written - in the sense that I find the style patronising. When I phoned to check something the person was not particularly rude and was reasonably helpful. The only reason I stick with the product is that they do work quite well. Having said this I also sail on boats with Adverc fitted and they work very well also!

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[pcatterall]

Thanks for all the posts on this.
Conclusion...? if I go for a smart regulator it would be an Arvark they sound ok to fit and I prefer to spend my money with someone who will be polite if I have any questions!
Brian, however, raises questions about the actual alternator, is it better to upgradethat as a first step. I have been offerred a 17ACR and wonder if that would be ok rather than the 18ACR he reccomends?
Would the 17 or 18 still benefit from a smart regulator?
As the regulator would be internal does this pose problems with fitting?
Thanks to you all for your good advice>

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[john_morris_uk]

If you need to charge your batteries anywhere near their capacity in as short a time as possible, you need a smart regulator on the alternator. The physics of batteries and the way the regulator that comes as part of a 17acr or 18acr (or any other 'standard' alternator come to that) means that you will only achieve near full charge after many many hours of charging. If its working well, a smart regulator will force the alternator to put as much charge into the batteries in as short a time as possible.

In simple terms, the speed of charge is governed initially by the capacity of the alternator, but very quickly as the surfaces of the plates are charged, the rate is governed by the absorbtion rate of the plates and to overcome the charging resistance, the alternator is made to charge at a slightly higher voltage. To avoid damaging the batteries, this processed must be timed, and the voltage carefully monitored. Hence the smart chargers talk of 'phases' or 'stages'. Hope that this helps. Nigel Calder's books are reasonably accurate on the subject if you want to read up on it.

By the way do you mean 'Adverc'?

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[halcyon]

The 17ACR will about double your charger output, it's doubtful if your 11AC will give much over 20 amp no matter what you do. A 17 ACR depending on battery bank size maybe 40 amp, fitting a new regulater will give you charging to about 80% capacity. This is a very subjective thing, as it depends on engine running time, external loads, ( nav equip, fridge etc ) type of load, air temp and on and on.
Changing the standard regulater on a ACR requires a small nut runner, around 6 mm to remove cover, then either a small spanner or posidrive screw driver to remove regulater, there are no solderdered joints, or complications. If you buy a new reg, get the dealer to do a check on regulation voltage as aome may be lower than others due to manufacturing tolerance, but lucas book gives 14.2 volt, +/- 0.05 volt. Also you can get the same regulater either as machine sensed, standard, battery sensed, dual ( machine and battery ) and dual with a temp sensor input, All these fit in the same place, with the same internal connections.
Fit the 17 ACR with new reg, and see how it goes, if you are still in trouble you can look at smart regs, if you do not need a smart one your £150 better off.

Brian

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[Cantata]

Me too, followed Sterling instructions exactly as written and had no problem. Kit worked as advertised, well worth it.

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[halcyon]

If your charge source is giving you around 20% of your amp hour capacity, ie 40 amp into a 200 amp hour bank, it should take the same time to reach this level with or without a smart regulater, and when you reach 14 .2 /4 volt you will have the same capacity. If you fit a large alternatter and try and force amps into the battery ie 80 amp into a 200 amp hour bank you will reach the same voltage, but only put 20% less charge into the battery, you then need the ' smart bit' to put the missing charge in.
This area has more pitfalls than the col regs, works great until you start filtering all the options, and the it all falls apart.

Brian

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[jonjo]

Interesting, I would like to understand this explanation a bit deeper.

My boat has a 140ah domestic battery and a 60A alternator. Going by your numbers it would be just as effective to install a 2nd domestic battery instead of a smart charger?

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[sailorman]

my experence of the ACR range + smart charger is that the D+ is a spade connector & cant stand high loads for long without getting hot & eventually failing.
also you will req. heat sensing on the alternator as they r designed for automotive use & cant cool-down enough in an engine bay

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[charles_reed]

The latest Adverc (I've had one from 1991, in which software and firmware have regularly been updated) allows reversion to the standard regulator by simply disconnecting it.
They're dead easy to fit, but I would recommend replacing your alternator feed with something heavier.
can't speak for the Sterling, but Adverc have a far larger customer base including a number of emergency services and commercial logistics companies.

I've found their after-sales service superb and their prices (for comparable gear) hard to better.

For a cruising boat they're high on the must-have list and more than double battery life.

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[charles_reed]

Alternators

I started with the original Hitachi 35 amp fitted to the Yanmar. This required major surgery to work with the early Adverc and died from overwork after 3 years.

I've since fitted a Lucas 90 amp and/or a Magnetti marelli 100 amp. (Diode bridges tend to overheat and melt so I always carry a spare alternator)

Alternator needs to be tuned to battery-bank capacity - about sufficient to recharge in 2 hours output at full output, so a 35 amp is great for 70 ah.

Why not phone up Brian/Trevor at Adverc 01902 380494. They'll give you good unbiassed advice.

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[jonjo]

Re: Alternators

> so a 35 amp is great for 70 ah

I am confused again.

By my sums (and factoring in the 2 hour full charge guidence you give)... if the usable capacity of a 70 ah battery is 50% or 35 ah, this infers that a 35 amp alternator is well matched against a 140ah domestic battery?

Happy to be corrected on any of this because at the end of the day I am trying to work out whether I should increase battery capacity or install a smart charger.

My current thinking is:

Doubling battery capacity gives me 280 ah, so whenever I disconnect from marina mains power I have 140ah in the bank at a push.

If the most efficient charge range is betwen 55% and 85% of battery capacity this equates to 84ah that my standard alternator should be able to pump in efficiently.

Once back in a marina after say a 4 day cruise away from shore power, the mains charger will bring the batteries upto 100% dealing with the sulphation issue as required.

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[ashley]

Re: Alternators

From what I've learned, you should not try and charge higher than 30% of the battery bank capacity per hour.
i.e., your 70ah battery should be charged no higher than 25amps/hour. Higher rates of charge causes excessive gassing and will destroy your battery unless it is AGM and designed for this type of charging.

You should decide how much "autonomy" you need, as in how many hours/days you wish you batteries to last with your projected usage. Convert that into amp/hours and double the figure to get your battery bank size.
Acquire an alternator that could attain half to a third of that charge and spend £100 on a smart charger.

The smart alternator will charge to 100% rather than 60% or 80% will be better for you batteries and enable you use a smaller bank of batteries anyway

<hr width=100% size=1>A truly wise man never plays leapfrog with a Unicorn