small yacht advice

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sdi2

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Hi, I am considering switching from motoring to sailing and I was thinking of a smallish yacht, also something nippy.
There are a few recommendations in this thread, THREAD.
A couple of important factors are that it would be mostly sailed single handedly and that it is a reasonable sea keeping boat (solent area).
I quite like the idea of a lifting keel so the a drying berth can be used, but reading here, it seems that it is not such a good idea because of stuff getting stuck in the gaps.
I would appreciate any thoughts you may have.

Thanks, Nick.
 
Bilge keels

I wouldn't rule out something like the Westerly Pageant, 23 feet, bilge keels so you can plonk it on the mud as the tide sweeps you sideways.....lots to choose from but get something cheap and cheerful to start with and then move up.
 
I haven't owned my little lifting keeler long, but here's my experience.

We only had her in the water for a few weeks last year, and after sitting for 1 week on a berth that dries only at low springs, the keel didn't want to lower and took a few tries of winding it up and down to free it.

Then I read a tip on here. Wind the keel up fully, then lower it again just slightly. The theory is, as it settles each low tide, it will push up that little bit, and that movement will keep it clear.

Had no further trouble, so that's what we will be doing this year.

The advantage of the lifting keel is the low draft when up. I can get into and out of the harbour in a foot of water when most boats can't, even bilge keelers, so my berth is accessible for more of the tide. And when launching or recovering on the slipway, the trailer doesn't need to go as deep as it would if it were a bilge keel or fixed keel.

But at the end of the day, the coice comes down to what's available in your budget close to you. We bought the lifting keel boat because it was available, in our budget and close to home. If it had been a bilge keel, we still would have bought it, and just accepted she needed a little more water.
 
All_at_Sea said:
I wouldn't rule out something like the Westerly Pageant
Click to expand...

Neither would I, good boat. Twin-keelers like the Pageant have a disadvantage over lift-keelers in that they need more water to float them, but they have advantages in that they've nothing to fear from settling down on sharp stones or other debris and they've no moving parts to give trouble.
 
JimC said:
Neither would I, good boat. Twin-keelers like the Pageant have a disadvantage over lift-keelers in that they need more water to float them, but they have advantages in that they've nothing to fear from settling down on sharp stones or other debris and they've no moving parts to give trouble.
Click to expand...

And no big centreboard case in the cabin to bark your shins on & always be getting in your way.
 
Coming over from the dark side :) If you can wait a couple of weeks you could come out for a sail in my Contessa 26 and get an idea of whether you want smaller, larger slower, faster. My boats at Gosport.
 
Thanks for the offer Chrissie, I am not in a position to do much about it as yet, but I will bear it in mind.
Can anyone give me an idea of how practical it is to sail single handedly?
I have been on a larger yacht in the past and it did seem a bit challenging getting it out of the berth with four crew.
 
I sail single handed, as do many of my friends. The people I know who need to have crew in order to get out are tied, and Ive known friends who have spent the weekend in the marina because their crew hasnt turned up, so having a boat that you can sail alone is great, and having a bit of space on it to take other people too gives you choice.

There are loads of techniques to making solo sailing easier, lots of threads have been done about them and make interesting reading.
 
I have had more lift keel boats than fixed keel....
the advice about lowering the board slightly is very valid. I do that, and have no trouble.
By smallish, are you thinking 25ft?

If you go to 25ft then you can get decent standing headroom. Expect to spend between £8 and £17k for something decent.
Suggestions might include
Evolution 25 (26 is nearly the same but lighter racing boat)
Jaguar 25
Dehler 25
Hunter Delta 25 (bit short on room those
Anderson 26 (not many about)

All of those can be single handed. Ask me how I know.
My first single handed boat was a Corribee, then I jumped to the Evo25. Buy fenders, prepare the boat,take your time, and relax. You will bump into stuff, we all do.
 
Where the engine sits is also important. I started with a Fantasie 19, great little boat with triple keels, could dry out easily. It had an outboard in a well, but when sailing she performed better with the outboard out and the blanking piece in place. You then had to store the outboard in the cabin down below. Other boats have the outboard on the transom, but even lifted it can drag. Some of the Hunters have an outboard on tracks in a cockpit locker, though I have no experience of using them.
Single handing is a must for every sailor, as you never know when you might have no choice. I remember a French racer saying that everyone should be able to sail singlehanded, as when you sail with friends and family who are not sailors, it's as good as sailing singlehanded. I moved on to a Sigma 33, set up for cruising, and sailed it singlehanded, though I never took it into a marina alone. My current 26 footer is easily managed, and if it's a difficult exit from a berth, I can easily warp her around to make it easier. There are numerous books and magazine articles with tips and advice to make it easier. I have yet to transit the Dutch locks single handed.... anyone got any tips?
 
I sail an e-boat which has a lifting keel. I dry out twice a day and have never have the keel stuck in 6 years (East coast mud). But there are different types of lifting keel, mine goes straight up and down like a centreboard (electric winch attached). The e-boat is great and I regularly sail on my own, I do find a swing mooring easier to get on/off though.
 
Actually sailing the boat singlehanded is usually quite easy. An autopilot is £300 well spent if you plan this... I don't imagine the sort of boat you're looking for will be sedate enough to let you leave the helm for long.
The hardest bit is leaving and arriving... so get a swing mooring and forget your worries! And save some money whilst you're at it. In my mind blowing up a dinghy and rowing it out is much less hassle than attempting to extricate a boat from a marina singlehanded*

Also the point about being singlehanded whislt taking novices out is completely true. I took a mate and associated family for a jaunt and found it quite daunting because not only did I have to do almost everything myself, but any instructions I gave (including 'get out of my way') had to be in slow, polite, and clear plain English. All the while putting on a show of complete serenity and confidence and tring to keep everybody amused and entertained... and keeping an eye on errant bodies who decided to go for a walk on the foredeck...


*this may be a symptom of owning an Albin Vega
 
Friends of mine have recently upgraded from a Seal22 to a WesterlyPageant 23,the Seal is trailerable and now up for sale complete with trailer. The Seal is the 'sportier of the two and a weekend on board the Seal is OK but not as roomy as the Pageant which can sleep 4 easily with more headroom. The Seal can make 6.5-7knots (and the Pageant about 5.5-6 knots in the same wind (F3+)) and draws 18" keel up. The Seal really gets a move on with a cruising chute or spinnaker but 2-handed really better then.
Depending upon your location a half tide mooring ,or berth should give no problems for either.
Slab reefing and furling genoa are the answer for singlehanding together with an Autohelm/Tillerpilot.
The Seal has an outboard engine in a well, the Pageant an inboard diesel, both around 10hp.

Sadlers and Sonatas,Medinas and the 22' and 23' Hunters also offer the different keel configuration and are no slouches, with acceptable accommodation and various engine options, often outboards.

I don't know the Anderson 22 but they may also fit your requirement.

ianat182
 
The Seamaster Sailer 23 is a lifting keel boat very similar to the Pagaent a few posters have mentioned although I suspect the OP is looking for something with more emphasis on performance than accomodation.
 
TamarMike said:
The Seamaster Sailer 23 is a lifting keel boat very similar to the Pagaent a few posters have mentioned although I suspect the OP is looking for something with more emphasis on performance than accomodation.
Click to expand...

Its an equation I am still trying to work out.
I like the idea of being quite nippy, but I also like the idea of having some space and I guess generally, one excludes the other.
Having very little experience does not help either.
Also I am baffled at the amount of boats that are a possibility, here is a selection from the original thread.

hunter 707
Limbo 6.6m
Eygthene 24
Dehler 22
mini transat ???

I am not taking the transat seriously though.
 
The number of different yacht designs over time is incredible. Yet each one will have had a production run of perhaps 400 or less, only a few will be up in the thousands. It's totally different to choosing a car where a few big players dominate the market and sell millions of one model.
In fact it is much more like choosing a house... and who chooses a house based on who designed it, or the type of construction?
Just like a house, boat choice is much more about the individual example. Especially boats that may be 40yrs old and barely resemble how they looked in the showroom. Does it have a good engine? Good sails? Good electronics? These all become very important as doing up a duff boat is not a clever use of money or time.
And just like a house, location of a boat can be important too. It's all very well looking at internet adverts from the other end of the country but are you really going to go and view a boat hundreds of miles away... and then trust that the trailer will get it home in one piece... or even worse are you seriously going to commit to a major delivery passage with a boat you don't know and trust yet?

Moral of the story: look at all the boats in your local area, rule nothing out, and pick the one your wife likes!!
 
another vote for the Westerly Pageant.
I have one of these and do most of my sailing single handed or with the family (single handed). They are fantastic boat with ALOT of room for there size, 6ft standing head room in the saloon.
Always welcom to come out on mine any weekend as i am out most weekends in the solent, boat moored in Southampton.
 
Try a Hunter Ranger 245. Self tacking jib, with roller reefing, and two or three good sized slab reefs in the main. All lines led to cockpit. High jib gives excellent visibility down wind, which for me, is a major benefit.
 
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