Small outboard - service or disposable?

Robin

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When I bought our previous outboard, a Mariner 2hp used on our tender I fully intended treating it royally and giving it regular services each winter. However this New Year resolution went out with the bath water after I paid for the first service and realised that 3 services would have bought a new engine, so DIY I thought. Well I didn't DIY or have it serviced and it went on and on and on, never failing to start when required, though I did have to clean the main jet twice in 10 years. OK the last 4 years of it's life it didn't get used much as we were then in a marina berth and didn't have the tender ride out to the mooring. When it eventually packed up (well started to stop for no apparent reason) it was 10 years old and we were on holiday, no time to waste waiting for repair (I couldn't find anything wrong), so we traded it in for a New Honda 2hp 4 stroke whilst in France they gave us about £100, not far off what we paid originally!

Now with our shiny new Honda once again I thought 'I will look after his one properly'. Well we only use an outboard for long tender trips on our main cruise, otherwise we are in a marina berth or use the oars alone so it just sits there most of the time up on the pushpit. We HAD to have the 1st service regardless, since we needed some factory recall bits fitted under warranty and they insisted, it cost about £85! The following year I left it untouched, no problems, then again the next year, remember we probably only used it a total of 2hrs per year. Then on last year's cruise as always it started 1st time having been sitting on the pushpit for 11 months, but this time it was not feeling well when asked to go at more than half throttle. Ah a blocked main jet I thought, well this requires the carb to be removed for access which in turn requires a fair amount of dismantling of other bits (I rang Honda to ask), so we went back to <half throttle and/or oar power. Yesterday I got the engine back from a full service, another £87 and apparently the problem was stale petrol only.

Finally for the question! At £87 for a service and a new engine costing £360 +/-, just 4 services will buy a new engine, 3 perhaps if the original is traded in for say £100 (?). So what do folks reckon, give the o/b red carpet services or leave it alone & trade it every 3 years for a new one?

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G

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A few pounds spent on service book and DIY ..... I too don't go for services, in fact last time engine went to services was for a blocked water duct.
Had both the Mariner 3 and Johnson 4.5 for many years and they chug along just fine !!!

OK - I agree that an engiune when not subjected to hard work can last for years as is ... but then again when you need the services - if someones NOT having them do work, they won't be there !!

For me - DIY


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In fact .....

A good second-hand one is even cheaper !!!! Bought from dealer gives limited warranty and is all serviced etc.

120 quid for a Mariner 2

150 quid for a Johnson twin 4.5

QED

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supermalc

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I'm assuming your outboards are 2 strokes. Download the manual, even buy the proper workshop manual for the engine. You should find the service simplicity it'self.

I have not actually had to do this yet, but after a few years, you may have to take be gearbox off the bottom to clean out any shellfish or other obstruction in the waterways. Fit a new impellor at the same time.

Fit a new spark plug with the correct gap every 2 years, and a buy a tin of carburettor cleaner. Unleaded fuel (rotten stuff) turns to gelly when left, and will clog up the jets (very small holes) in the carburettor.

If it is autolube (oil in a separate tank) drain and change this oil. Otherwise just drain the petrol tank and refill with the correct mix (usually 100 to 1 on modern engines)

Now how many people want theirs servicing. I'll do it for £40 or £50. Sounds about right for an hours work, seeing I'm forced to live on £74.95 for a WEEK.

BTW I've helped one or two people service their engines for free last year.....just so you don't think I'm being greedy.

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blue_anchor

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my shed is a testimony to years of O/b rebuilds..!all doable..until the bearings go..then the cost of replacing them gets silly,needing a flywheel puller,etc..up to then,cleaning out waterways is an essential tedious job..main thing is never let unleaded premix fuel hang around..oil degrades rapidly,bearings(powerhead etc)ditto.ive crossbred merc/mariner hybrids,but hate johnson/evinrudes..still using primitive ignition on older models..tohatsus are good value&fine-they make all the badge models anyway!and as for seagulls..hmm,droppings.

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Robin

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My current Honda is a 4stroke. The life of unleaded fuel is certainly a question I would have since that seems to have been the cause of my problem. I did buy a bottle of fuel stabiliser/preservative to add this time but I am wondering a) if to add this to 6 month old fuel in the can or b) buy fresh fuel and add the stabiliser. If the latter then dare I add the old fuel to the car tank, I suspect yes if it is with a reasonable quantity in the tank already.

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andyball

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Have put stale petrol in car/van tanks many times, no prob.

If you've got gallons & gallons of it, don't bung it all in at once.

Stale petrol smells very,very different from good stuff...next time you've a running prob after long period of layup, give it a niff compared to fresh stuff & you'll know right away whether to drain & dump the old. (not forgetting to drain the carb' too)

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G

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Gasoline storage

This is an old hat subject ..... but basically :

Storgae in a outboard or other fuel tank on a vehicle etc. is vented and subject to loss of aromatics and oxygenates. Leaving a denser and less viable fuel behind. The secret to staorage of gasoline is to place in sealed container in a cool dark place. The container should be coloured and restrict light to the contents.

Storage of fuel under these conditions is them months, can even be years.

I own a Petro-chem lab and base my fuel comments on the experience and results obtained via such. We regularly run tests on new and old fuels, along with blending exercises. WE supervise various suppliers blends for significant markets giving us a unique insight into components and quality of products.

It is often quoted on this and other forums incorrectly about conditions of gasolines. Gasolines are a vaporous product and therefore need vapour-lock conditions for long-term storage.

As regards this post-thread - I also literally leave my outboard foir long periods with fuel in tank - funny isn't it that I don't take my own advise !! But I also expect my engine to run poorly for a period while fresh batch clears the system. If not - then its a strip of carb, WD40 or similar to ungunge it - even boil the jets to get real crud out ..... then away with the best !!!! Mt car stands for long periods - but seems not to care.

So there you are ..... take it or leave it !!!!


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Gasoline smell ...

Olafactory Specification.

Market spec is 'Marketable'.

As to give it a sniff ...... gasoline odour has changed considerably over the years as it has moved away from straight run gasoline ex refinerys to blended products. You now have Alcohols, MTBE, ETBE and other components in it that make sniffing gasoline a very unreliable assessment. How would you know if a gasoline had MMR in it and various C5 / C9 combinations ?? which will make a very large change and degradation of smell factor - but in fact is a very potent fuel ?
Sorry but Gasoline is a very tricky and difficult subject to generalise.


<hr width=100% size=1>Nigel ...
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Re: In fact .....

It works for me ..... but then again there must be those that it doesn't ..... The last time my engines were run - is probably last august 2003 ..... wil try them in March 2004 ..... I bet they work !!!!


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duncan

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I think the comments were being made around the lub properties of 'stale' premix' rather than the fuel itself.
An interesting angle - is it because it seperates, and if so could it be agitated back into like?

I would have thought that oil per se is very stable so what is breaking down?

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andyball

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The thread mentioned a honda 4-stroke, so no pre-mix concerns.

I can only speak as I have found fixing a large number of m/c's with starting/running prob's, & petrol stale enough to cause problems smells very very distinctive-unmistakable imo .

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Joe_Cole

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When I bought my boat I was given a copy of the invoice for a recent service on the outboard; "To rectify cooling". The cooling didn't seem to be working so I stripped the engine to find no vanes on the impellor (all broken off) and waterways completely blocked. They had charged £65 for doing nothing!

FWIW I won't entrust my engine, or my safety, to a dealer who is able to do this. I also prefer to do my own servicing so that I "know" the engine; if it does let me down I want to be able to fix it there and then.

Joe

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Talbot

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I am with you on this. I do all my own servicing and my little 2hp is 22 yrs old. I strip the head out every 2-3 years to remove all the crystals from the water passages, and replace impellor and points at the same time (even the spark plug sometimes /forums/images/icons/smile.gif engine works like a dream, and I will only be replacing it cause a 3.5 has more power for my new tender /forums/images/icons/smile.gif

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blue_anchor

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sorry nigel,but on enquiry to tohatsu main agents..biggest cause of warranty return s is powerhead bearing failure due to degradation of premix oil in unleaded fuel..i will play safe and only use fresh stuff..we are talking 2 stroke,folks

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Robin

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Re: Gasoline storage

Thanks Nigel. Does that mean the old stuff in sealed green petrol cans on board is still usable (or at least the full one is)? I have this elixir marked Yamaha for adding to petrol to keep it stable, any idea if this is OK to use on old fuel or just on fresh stuff to keep it so?

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Chris_Robb

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Don\'t bother!

I just change the gear box oil every year - wash through with fresh water, wash down generally - cover with spray oil WD 40 type - and store! No problems in 15 years!


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Re: Gasoline storage

As to the elixir - I have no info on it so can't advise other than assume that it must be possibly an anti-gum agent maybe. I would assume that it is put into good fuel, as old fuel if 'off' would need serious measures to get it up to crack again.
If your container has been sealed and out of the way in a cool dark place ..... then should be ok. BUT if it has had 2T mixed in - this could have settled and broken down. So a bloody good shake of the can to mix all up again is well advised. If there is any gum in the base of the can .... then serious filtering will be called for.
I have never thrown away fuel gasoline or diesel ...... even when used for cleaning !!!! Gasoil / Diesel will settle out sediments and deposits, gasoline will also ... but obviously gasoline is more subject to loss of alcohols and aromatics etc. If in doubt - mix it with fresh ....... why throw away something that costs ????


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Re: Don\'t bother!

sounds about right ..... and a plug now and again !!!

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