small or big boat and costs in the Med

[tomski]

Hi All,
I've a 42' Bruce Roberts which I am in the middle of sorting out back to her former glory however recently read loads about costs and issues with such a boat in the Med...so much that I am becoming concerned if I am up to the job of handling the BR...and thinking if I should not be on a smaller plastic boat (ie a 30+ footer)....

To give you an idea of our plan it is sail to Calaise from East coast then onto the rivers to south coast of France and onto the Med then probably track to Greece...thats the plan not sure if we can do it all from May onwards and liveonboard whilst underway...

So wanted to hear some opinions/experiences on:
- Being a 42 footer how easy will it be to find parking for her...ideally not a marina berth as these will be expensive but anchor etc
- Read loads about maintenance..she will be fresh out of dock so to speak so hopefully less maintenance first year, but is plastic that much less maintenance?
- If we need to park in a marina, it will be tight to maneouvre...are bow thrusters for such size recommended or a must
- There will be only two of us (plus potentially a dog) but my missus is not a sailor at all..hope to get her skills up before we set off...would that be sufficient or would we need to get crew?

Thank you in advance for any suggestions/answers

 

[Tranona]

You have really answered your own question. Of course a 42 footer will be more expensive to operate than a 30 footer. However, it is not an uncommon size for what you are planning to do, so you will not find any difficulty in using the boat in the Med - assume it is less than 1.6m draft to get through the canals. The break point on marina fees is usually 12m - that is when the rates usually rise more steeply, so try to get your registration papers to show less than 12m!

In general the western Med is more marina orientated and there are relatively fewer anchorages, but in Greece and Turkey it is possible to virtually avoid marinas altogether although you may be charged if you go alongside a village quay. Most berthing is stern (or bows) to so it is helpful if the boat goes backwards well, and of course you will need a good set of anchors and a windlass. A bow thruster can be useful, but it really depends on the individual boat and your confidence in handling it.

With regard to maintenance, in the short run there is little difference between steel and GRP - the latter, however is more tolerant of neglect. The major issues are more to do with equipment, particularly domestic - electrics, water, loos, fridges etc as most of these are not designed for continual living usage. Well designed and well installed systems reduce the amount of time (and money) spent on maintenance.

Personally, I would not have bought a boat like yours - better to spend more initially to get a better boat, but probably in the long run, the higher running costs will offset the low purchase price and the overall costs of the project may not be much different. There are distinct advantages in a bigger boat from the comfort perspective, but you pay for it in terms of running cost. My biggest concern with your boat (from what I have seen) is that you might have underestimated the amount of work necessary to get it to the state where it is a reliable mobile home. Getting even a modern "together" boat ready for a long distance trip is enormously time consuming - not just the physical bit, but the planning, figuring out what to buy and how to fit it, making everything reliable and safe and so on - and the bigger the boat, the more there is to sort.

However, many people have done it and there is a huge sense of achievement if you do get there. Just hope your boat does not end up as an abandoned project rotting away in a field somewhere.

 

[Mr Cassandra]

You have really answered your own question. Of course a 42 footer will be more expensive to operate than a 30 footer. However, it is not an uncommon size for what you are planning to do, so you will not find any difficulty in using the boat in the Med - assume it is less than 1.6m draft to get through the canals. The break point on marina fees is usually 12m - that is when the rates usually rise more steeply, so try to get your registration papers to show less than 12m!

In general the western Med is more marina orientated and there are relatively fewer anchorages, but in Greece and Turkey it is possible to virtually avoid marinas altogether although you may be charged if you go alongside a village quay. Most berthing is stern (or bows) to so it is helpful if the boat goes backwards well, and of course you will need a good set of anchors and a windlass. A bow thruster can be useful, but it really depends on the individual boat and your confidence in handling it.

With regard to maintenance, in the short run there is little difference between steel and GRP - the latter, however is more tolerant of neglect. The major issues are more to do with equipment, particularly domestic - electrics, water, loos, fridges etc as most of these are not designed for continual living usage. Well designed and well installed systems reduce the amount of time (and money) spent on maintenance.

Personally, I would not have bought a boat like yours - better to spend more initially to get a better boat, but probably in the long run, the higher running costs will offset the low purchase price and the overall costs of the project may not be much different. There are distinct advantages in a bigger boat from the comfort perspective, but you pay for it in terms of running cost. My biggest concern with your boat (from what I have seen) is that you might have underestimated the amount of work necessary to get it to the state where it is a reliable mobile home. Getting even a modern "together" boat ready for a long distance trip is enormously time consuming - not just the physical bit, but the planning, figuring out what to buy and how to fit it, making everything reliable and safe and so on - and the bigger the boat, the more there is to sort.

However, many people have done it and there is a huge sense of achievement if you do get there. Just hope your boat does not end up as an abandoned project rotting away in a field somewhere.

Very well said

 

[mocruising]

We are 16 m overall with the davits and draw 1.9. We sailed from the UK in 2002 and are now in Greece. We have never had a problem getting in any where. I single hand a bit and as long as you plan ahead there is always someone who will lend a hand. I have a BT but if the winds up I wait outside for a bit of calm which usually comes in the early evening.We like the space even if its not always in use, we are planing to go up a size but need to sell first, 10m suits some but not for us. The western Med. can be expensive but the further east you go the cheaper it gets and if you only stay in marinas between October and March there is always a deal to be had, some where, even if its swinging on a buoy in a sheltered spot for the winter. My advice don't trade down, Roberts are good boats as long as the initial build was good.

 

[tomski]

Thank you thats a great answer...

I've no issues about getting the yacht ready, I did go into this with eyes wide open, probably a bit rosy due to the size etc but I do have a dedicated budget which everyone told me should be sufficient and I have a full time chap starting work on her 2nd week of Jan and continuing until May so with luck, fair winds, good spells and good ol' hard yakka we'll be on the water by June, we'll certainly have her watertight by end of Jan (not that I'm optimistic or anything lol)...

In terms of the work its not as bad as I first thought, the rust isnt a major issue which is the good news (well at least hull sides and bottom), rigging is actually serviceable, sails are in good to serviceable condition (all 9 of them), engine is newly reconnned as is the gearbox and her electronics are actually fairly modern and working (but she desperately needs a re-wire)...overall it is a very solid cruiser (besides the 8 spots needing repair steel is around 6-10mm elsewhere) so once the repairs and mods are done she will be a solid sailing cruiser once again
But project aside I guess the key q in my head is the cost thing in the long run...initial intention as mentioned is the canals, then the med, then the hidden hope is that the missus will get to love sailing and we'll sail her back to Oz or beyond...she's got history to prove she can sail (South, North Atlantic, Med, Biscay, UK) so its more a question of size vs affordability vs comfort...food for thought

 

[mocruising]

Oh one thing I forgot fit a thruster, heavy steel boat its a must.

 

[jonic]

Very well said

I thought that too.

 

[NornaBiron]

We've been living on board for 5 years now, four years in the Med (mainly Greece) and mostly on the anchor. My husband was an accomplished sailor when we left the UK but I had minimal experience, I learnt quickly and can now sail our 30 tonne 49' steel boat single handed. We don't have a bow thruster, it would probably make our lives easier if we had one but as we very rarely go into a marina or tie to a wall we manage perfectly well without it. We anchor as a rule, year round, and have never struggled to find space anywhere.

As far as the costs are concerned, we keep ours down by doing all maintenance ourselves (we couldn't afford to be here otherwise) and by not visiting marinas.

A bigger boat usually means more storage for water and fuel, therefore the need to go into a harbour and tie up is reduced.

Good luck

 

[chinita]

In your situation I would spend bow thruster money on good ground tackle.

When are you going to use a bow thruster except in marinas which you can't afford?

Carry two good bower anchors (the heaviest you can manage) along with 100m of chain.

An ally Fortress anchor (expensive), tandem shackled with a 3m length of chain to the crown of your bower anchor, should hold you in most circumstances.

Wherever you drop the hook and are in any doubt about changing conditions, get as far away from all other boats and put all the chain out.

Just my experience with a 14m, 25 ton, steel yacht.

 

[tomski]

So there were two issues...first the costs in marinas etc as a couple of people told me that I wont be able to find any/many anchorages until I get to Greece hence the concern as I dont think I could afford marinas all the way there if we were to take our time (which is why we would do it in the first place)...seems that this is not the case?

Second was handling...I have sailed a fair bit back home (Australia) did Melb-Hob and a run to NZ and back quite a few years ago etc, then a couple of cross channel runs here in the UK but not sailed for at least 5 years now...so think will be ok (need to brush up on CEVNI stuff and general nav etc but no dramas there), but as said the missus has been on a sail boat once in her life...hence my (pleasant) surprise when she whole heartidly agreed to this...and Norna's inspiring words also help

Well planning ahead I will go to sea with her a few times before we set off just in case anyway

 

[vyv_cox]

As far as the costs are concerned, we keep ours down by doing all maintenance ourselves (we couldn't afford to be here otherwise) and by not visiting marinas.

Knowing the boat and the crew, I can state categorically that the amount of maintenance work that they get through is mind-blowing! They are considerably younger than many of us, with apparently boundless energy. I reckon I can keep going fairly well in the boatyard but there is no way I could keep up with them in the seemingly endless effort of keeping a big steel boat in good condition.

 

[chinita]

Anchoring in the Western Med is not as easy as it used to be as the money grubbers have laid mooring buoys in the old favourites. However, there are still many possibilities if you decide against the French canal option.

On the Algarve you can anchor in Sagres, Alvor, Faro, Isla Culatra, the River Guadiana (which you won't want to leave).

As you head East, possibly Gib (I have had conflicting reports of this), Motril, off Cabo de Gata, Garrucha, Mar Menor.

Balearics a bit tricky these days but still various spots around Majorca - Palma, Soller, Colom, Pollensa.

Ibiza & Formentera - San Antonio and many others.

Menorca - Cala Fornells is huge and safe. Many other Calas are still ok - but not Mahon.

Don't worry, you will pick up the info as you go along. There are many, many boats on a tight budget for which summer marinas are out of the question. Besides, after 48 days on the hook (as we were once) after your first few hours in a marina you will feel like you have been locked in a cupboard.

 

[NornaBiron]

Knowing the boat and the crew, I can state categorically that the amount of maintenance work that they get through is mind-blowing! They are considerably younger than many of us, with apparently boundless energy. I reckon I can keep going fairly well in the boatyard but there is no way I could keep up with them in the seemingly endless effort of keeping a big steel boat in good condition.

Thanks Vyv, luckily we only have to have her out of the water every three years!

 

[BobnLesley]

There's always a contrary opinion on here

...and thinking if I should not be on a smaller plastic boat (ie a 30+ footer)....

Yes, yes and a hundred times yes!

But first I will admit to having just changed up to a thirty five footer with the intention of crossing the Atlantic.

We (two of us - I'd advise leaving the dog, whatever size of boat you eventually choose) spent eight years cruising a 27 footer from the UK to the eastern Med and the benefits far outweighed the disadvantages:

The cost savings of spare/new parts and of marina berths are obvious, but with only a four-foot draft it's availability of berths too; in high season, when the marinas all claim to be 'full', what they actually mean are that all the 11 - 13m+ berths are taken, they will always have a spot to squeeze you in, usually amongst the weekend sports fishing boats. On top of that, there's a whole load more harbours that you can use which the bigger yachts can't get into and even those harbours which the Pilot Books note as 'local/fishermen only, visiting yachts not welcome' have a warm welcome for a little-un. When yachts are rafting, you'll be positively encouraged to come alongside - before somebody with a 43' steel boat arrives and asks/tries.

In mid-summer many of the popular anchorages will get tight for space, but you can invariably squeeze in and usually further inshore & with better shelter too. In the western Med, where the anchorages are scarcer, rather than just reading your Pilot Books, look at your charts too, there's a surprising number of unmentioned but well sheltered nooks and crannies that a small boat can anchor in.

We came around the outside, but the diminutive length and draft scores in the canals too; you can get closer in to the bank to moor at night and even the Canal du Midi's open to you.

 

[noelex]

The best way of reducing costs is to stay out of marinas. I also think life at anchor is much more pleasant than in a crowded marina.
A larger boat makes this practical, easier and more enjoyable..
Like Norna Biron we generally aim to visit a marina only every few years. This is not practical everywhere so we tend to cruse the places where this is possible. The Eastern Med is good location to live this lifestyle

 

[Hugh and Brenda]

Yes some good answers above, bow thruster when you learn to handle your boat you don't need one, just something else to go wrong.
B.R. good strong boat lots of good ones about. Some had a weather helm problem, (fixable) I think it was the Mauritius.
Steel, yes steel boats are easy to maintain and repair secret is a good paint job then fix your chips using hand tools not grinders.
Anchoring in the Med all year around possible, also some free marines etc. in fact you can anchor almost anywhere in the world for free.

Good luck and keep is simple.
Hugh

 

[tomski]

I am sold...I think I will give it a go in my BR...have done some more research and I think my partner was the ultimate decider...more space is better ....so back to getting focused on making Rudy seaworthy

 

[Artic Warrior]

Funny but i hunted for 15 years buying a few different boats steel and plastic and even cats, which i luv. i want to go everywhere and could not afford a Ovni and the like, and found a swing keel 46ft 16ton steel round bilge and love it.
low freeboard, safe deck, many strong holds, etc and shollow enough for a pleasent canal trip drawing only 4ft.
Ive hit a few heavy floatsum things lying in the water knowing all will be well.

The up keep of chips n scrapes keeps me busy, and passes the day.
swinging in the hamac with the paint brush in my hand is funny Lol.

Dont get me wrong i like some plastic boats, but think i would get bored.
always remember,,good ground tackle is keen,,,number one.

 

[Slow_boat]

I have a similar dilema; I want a small cat, Heavenly twins or Prout, because it has all we need for two and it's cheap to buy and run and leave for the winter.

She want's a big Moody. I have no idea why except she was impressed with the bed and shower.

 

[macd]

a couple of people told me that I wont be able to find any/many anchorages until I get to Greece

That's far from the case, as Chinita suggests, although it will partly depend on your route: I can't speak for the French and Italian rivieras, but Sardinia, Corsica and Sicily have heaps of anchorages (as well as being places well worth exploring). The sole of Italy isn't so well endowed with good anchorages, but there are just about sufficient.

Four years ago I spent over 4 months dawdling from Cadiz to Greece, during which I spent three nights in marinas (and that through choice rather than necessity). On the return trip: four nights. I must be ageing.