Seajet
...
I can't recall ever reading a line and knowing so immediately that it has never, ever been written or uttered before.
How about ' I am a well known sex-God, irresistible to any crumpet who sets their eyes on me ' ?!
Small Motorsailer
- Thread starter dylanwinter
- Start date
How about ' I am a well known sex-God, irresistible to any crumpet who sets their eyes on me ' ?!
aquaplane
Well-Known Member
How about ' I am a well known sex-God, irresistible to any crumpet who sets their eyes on me ' ?!
I think that is probably been thought and said lots of times, lots of dilusional folk about.
Seajet
...
Who said anything about delusional ?
aquaplane
Well-Known Member
All this talk of the benfits of motorsailers makes me realise I should be considering one if/when I trade up from the Centaur.
Greenheart
Well-Known Member
I tend to believe you're serious because I believe in the benefits...but as I said in post 107, motorsailers' rarity seems to indicate that not many people agree. Were you kidding?
Sandgrounder
Well-Known Member
Bob,
A couple of good ones out there at the moment: LM 32 which is a bit pricey but potentially lovely if you can ignore all the detritus on this example and a coaster 33 which looks pretty good
LM: - http://www.boatshed.com/lm__32-boat-154701.html
Coaster: - http://yachts.apolloduck.co.uk/feature.phtml?id=332764
Not looking honest
NUTMEG
Well-Known Member
They do have advantages, dancrane, especially as winter draws on. But you do have to use the engine more, perhaps, then a pure bred sailing boat. In August I had a couple of days away but the winds were very light, F2 or F3. Rose sailed for sure but she would not tack through the wind no matter how much I fiddled about with sail trim, the only answer was to start the engine, just at tick over, to push her head around. In a good F3 or above she tacks like a good 'un, but in very light airs she needs an extra push.
I loved my old gaffer, she was a pure sailing boat, I could, and did, sail her out of her berth and never touched the engine until slipping her back into it. Lovely during the summer, but this time of year?
So, as the saying goes, every boat is a compromise. There is no such thing as a perfect boat, not even an Anderson 22! (Ducks and runs for cover)
Seajet
...
Dan,
a chum of mine - and an occasional forumite here - has a late model Centaur, re-engined with a 3 cylinder Nannidiesel job, with a good sprayhood and dodgers.
I've sailed on her, and my Dad's late model Centaur too for that matter, and they seem like comfortable boats in a sea, keeping one out of the weather; not motor -sailors as they perform quite well in the right hands, so one gets the best of both worlds...Might not be a rewarding hairy-arsed boat to sail, but it has its' plus points !
a chum of mine - and an occasional forumite here - has a late model Centaur, re-engined with a 3 cylinder Nannidiesel job, with a good sprayhood and dodgers.
I've sailed on her, and my Dad's late model Centaur too for that matter, and they seem like comfortable boats in a sea, keeping one out of the weather; not motor -sailors as they perform quite well in the right hands, so one gets the best of both worlds...Might not be a rewarding hairy-arsed boat to sail, but it has its' plus points !
Poecheng
Well-Known Member
I detest Boatshed for making you log in to see the photographs.
However, it was worth it to see the pictures that the broker has seen fit to publish of this boat's bilges :encouragement:
Sandgrounder
Well-Known Member
Yes it's extraordinary the state in which some folk think they will sell a boat and brokers too by the look of it.
aquaplane
Well-Known Member
Thanks Simon, £40k is a bit rich for me. My current Apolloduck search is for something 10 yrs newer and 2' ish longer than the Centaur, but Konsorts or Sadler 29's look OK. Ivor (a mate) has bought an LM27and it's not my cup of tea.
Mum's Espace 1000 is to big and too old and will probably be a money pit but it'll be cheap and I know what's to do on it so I'll probably see how I go with her.
Dan, I'm not kidding, I know the benefits too, and I sail a Centaur so a deck saloon that points as well and has the accommodation and an inside steering position would be luxury for me.
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BrianH
Well-Known Member
After a lifetime of different boats bought for their sailing ability I changed my entire philosophy from performance to comfort and bought myself a motor-sailor, the only one Hallberg Rassy ever made, the 31' HR94. Perhaps I am longer at sea on a passage than before, but so what? It's why I have a boat, to be sailing. And if I really want to get there quicker when the wind is too little I start the engine.
It's not just northern climes that a wheel-house or, in my case, a dog-house, is an advantage. In the Adriatic we can get a lot of storms when shelter is welcome; the roof anyway replaces the necessary bimini in the searingly hot sun.
I also discovered it's no slouch either, it really is more 'sailor' than 'motor'. I had my last sail this year two weeks ago and with a wind speed of 18 knots here I am creaming along at 7.2 knots SOG - I've got the MarineTraffic track log to prove it.
It's not just northern climes that a wheel-house or, in my case, a dog-house, is an advantage. In the Adriatic we can get a lot of storms when shelter is welcome; the roof anyway replaces the necessary bimini in the searingly hot sun.
I also discovered it's no slouch either, it really is more 'sailor' than 'motor'. I had my last sail this year two weeks ago and with a wind speed of 18 knots here I am creaming along at 7.2 knots SOG - I've got the MarineTraffic track log to prove it.
JumbleDuck
Well-Known Member
I like the Boatshed policy of giving a standard set of photographs - it gives a much better picture of the boat than carefully selected highlights. I bought my current boat through them, and when I went to see her there were no nasty surprises ... unlike another one of the type I went to see in Scotland, the six broker's pictures of which had been very carefully selected.
The real issue lies with people who attempt to sell boats without making any attempt to present them. In many cases just ten minutes of work would make a world of difference. When you're taking pictures of the cabin, for example, get a couple of big cardboard boxes, shove all your personal stuff in it and move it out for the shoot. For example, the LM wheelhouse would look soooooooooooooo much better with the piles of junk removed. The mains extension doesn't help either:
John Teale
Member
Hi all.
I just thought I would put in my pennies worth about a small motorsailor incase it helps any one out.
I just recently purchased a fisher 25 and had my first sail in her over the last few days from near Oban to Glasgow through the canal.
It was all single handed except a friend helped me through the canal, but let's just say I am more than happy with her. Going through the canal and in marinas she seems to handle very well. I think this is due to her heavy displacement and long keel. That said she will only steer astern if there is no wind. Going ahead though she is fine in confined space.
Sailing here from the canal to largs was brilliant. It was windy with gusts of up to 35 knots at one point just fed of the beam and with only the full main up she was cruising at just over 5 knots. One the sea had died down and the wind dropped to about 18-20 she was sailing along all day at 5.5 knots.
I would say you can get the fisher to go at 5.5 knots all day long, maybe you will have to use the donkey if you close hauled but to me that's fine.
I did feel quite smug when I was just entering the river Clyde under full sail overtaking another boat. I came out of my nice warm wheel house into the rain to give them a friendly wave.
So in my opinion the fisher 25 is a plodder. It will never set the world on fire, but it will sail good, motorsail great, handle good and boy can it get warm with the heating on and the wheel house door closed.
Cheers John.
I just thought I would put in my pennies worth about a small motorsailor incase it helps any one out.
I just recently purchased a fisher 25 and had my first sail in her over the last few days from near Oban to Glasgow through the canal.
It was all single handed except a friend helped me through the canal, but let's just say I am more than happy with her. Going through the canal and in marinas she seems to handle very well. I think this is due to her heavy displacement and long keel. That said she will only steer astern if there is no wind. Going ahead though she is fine in confined space.
Sailing here from the canal to largs was brilliant. It was windy with gusts of up to 35 knots at one point just fed of the beam and with only the full main up she was cruising at just over 5 knots. One the sea had died down and the wind dropped to about 18-20 she was sailing along all day at 5.5 knots.
I would say you can get the fisher to go at 5.5 knots all day long, maybe you will have to use the donkey if you close hauled but to me that's fine.
I did feel quite smug when I was just entering the river Clyde under full sail overtaking another boat. I came out of my nice warm wheel house into the rain to give them a friendly wave.
So in my opinion the fisher 25 is a plodder. It will never set the world on fire, but it will sail good, motorsail great, handle good and boy can it get warm with the heating on and the wheel house door closed.
Cheers John.
E39mad
Well-Known Member
Great post John
My experience with a new sloop rigged version (new sails/clean hull) with a feathering 3 bladed prop is that 6 knots can easily be achieved and excess if concentrating - not bad for a motorsailer!
Just because some boats have wheel or pilot houses does not make them slouches through the water!!
A 20 year younger verison of me is sat in the cockpit from this photo shoot:
http://fisheryachts.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/02/3001.jpg
My experience with a new sloop rigged version (new sails/clean hull) with a feathering 3 bladed prop is that 6 knots can easily be achieved and excess if concentrating - not bad for a motorsailer!
Just because some boats have wheel or pilot houses does not make them slouches through the water!!
A 20 year younger verison of me is sat in the cockpit from this photo shoot:
http://fisheryachts.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/02/3001.jpg
Greenheart
Well-Known Member
Dear me, this thread has put the F25 firmly back on my 'preferred' list.
I had talked myself away from her because I felt that if I had to have an all-tide mooring to accommodate a yacht's form, I'd want really rewarding performance as pay-back.
That still seems a justified outlook...but as six wintry months start in the UK, the thought of morning coffee in a heated wheelhouse with blowers demisting the windows, revealing a frosty anchorage churned by bone-chilling crosswinds, reminds me I'd never choose a yacht whose only helm is in the cockpit. The F25 makes a powerful case for herself.
Particularly interesting because the cosy & characterful Fisher wheelhouse doesn't concede anything towards aerodynamics, in the way that sail-orientated motor-sailers do...
...but it's struck me that the inherent compromise in deck-saloon designs (typically with autopilot controls instead of wheels) usually means far poorer visibility, especially aft...
The consequence of which is that motor-sailers which try so hard to stress their sailing side, really aren't ideal for helming indoors during rotten weather...so why bother at all?
This video shows how good visibility is from the F25's wheelhouse, from about one minute in. Mute the awful music:
The Fisher's infernal inability to dry out upright is the only real obstacle to it being my ideal.
Just as well the thinness of my wallet precludes the making of this difficult decision.
I had talked myself away from her because I felt that if I had to have an all-tide mooring to accommodate a yacht's form, I'd want really rewarding performance as pay-back.
That still seems a justified outlook...but as six wintry months start in the UK, the thought of morning coffee in a heated wheelhouse with blowers demisting the windows, revealing a frosty anchorage churned by bone-chilling crosswinds, reminds me I'd never choose a yacht whose only helm is in the cockpit. The F25 makes a powerful case for herself.
Particularly interesting because the cosy & characterful Fisher wheelhouse doesn't concede anything towards aerodynamics, in the way that sail-orientated motor-sailers do...
...but it's struck me that the inherent compromise in deck-saloon designs (typically with autopilot controls instead of wheels) usually means far poorer visibility, especially aft...
The consequence of which is that motor-sailers which try so hard to stress their sailing side, really aren't ideal for helming indoors during rotten weather...so why bother at all?
This video shows how good visibility is from the F25's wheelhouse, from about one minute in. Mute the awful music:
The Fisher's infernal inability to dry out upright is the only real obstacle to it being my ideal.
Just as well the thinness of my wallet precludes the making of this difficult decision.
NUTMEG
Well-Known Member
Greenheart
Well-Known Member
I never thought I'd find a boat whose proportions make the Fisher 25 look sleek...but I think the CW28 is such a vessel!
At about 2 minutes 33 seconds into that film, the shape of the windows in the CW's wheelhouse suggests to me that they were the only ones the builder could lay hands on...they don't fit the shape of the wheelhouse. Is that a consequence of home-construction?
At about 2 minutes 33 seconds into that film, the shape of the windows in the CW's wheelhouse suggests to me that they were the only ones the builder could lay hands on...they don't fit the shape of the wheelhouse. Is that a consequence of home-construction?
mrming
Well-Known Member
My Dad home completed a motor sailer when I was very small, and we travelled all over the Irish Sea in her, so I have a soft spot for them.
I can totally see the point of a Fisher 25, and there are days when the rain is stinging my face when I would give anything to be in a nice warm wheelhouse with a cuppa.
However, those who say the Fisher 25 sails "surprisingly well" must surely be smoking something stronger than the traditional sailor's briar pipe. The sloop rigged F25 has an SA/D of 9.5. With the best will in the world you are going to be motoring in F3 and below. I have no problem with this, but it's not "sailing well" by any stretch of the imagination.
I can totally see the point of a Fisher 25, and there are days when the rain is stinging my face when I would give anything to be in a nice warm wheelhouse with a cuppa.
However, those who say the Fisher 25 sails "surprisingly well" must surely be smoking something stronger than the traditional sailor's briar pipe. The sloop rigged F25 has an SA/D of 9.5. With the best will in the world you are going to be motoring in F3 and below. I have no problem with this, but it's not "sailing well" by any stretch of the imagination.
JumbleDuck
Well-Known Member
The "surprisingly" is probably significant. I'd love a Fisher, but a larger one, please.