Small motor sailor suggestions?

[LadyInBed]

What happened?

I looked around at several motor sailors of similar style to the Northeaster and found something I disliked with all of them, then I saw a Colvic Countess 33 pilot house ketch and it had everything I was looking for, so I bought it.

 

[LittleSister]

The LM's are worth a look too but I thought the interiors very stark and angular, in a bruising sort of way.

LMs are definitely worth a look in my view. I find the interior of mine not stark, but stylish and cosy: certainly not at all bruising.

More sailing oriented than many other motor-sailers. Quality of build is generally very impressive, and lots of really clever, original design thinking went into them.

The LM motor-sailer earlier range (mid 70s to early 80s) was the surprisingly useful LM24 (not many around in England, quite cheap) and the winning LM27 (best selling motor-sailer ever). These have a shallow draft, long keel hull derived from traditional Baltic fishing boats. Some have the rear of the wheelhouse open (as per the original design), but most imported to UK are fully enclosed.

The later LM26, LM28, LM30 and (IIRC) LM32 are usually more expensive. Similar style/layouts inside (that's good!), but more modern looking outside, have a some clever refinements to the originals' design features, and a more modern yacht type hull, with fin or (not so many around) bilge keels and saildrives.

Sadly, LM stopped building boats, but are now the world's largest manufacturer of wind turbine blades.

p.s. Forgot to mention the quick fold-away cockpit cover that's standard, and makes an additional 'room' of the cockpit, or serves as a bimini.

 

[dunedin]

Has he looked at. Sirius lovely boats which seem to sail and I believe can be test sailed from Haslar. There was a 40 berthed next to us but smaller versions exist I gather and might be slightly more exciting than a Fisher or Eclipse and of course somewhat newer if you just want a boat for sailing as opposed to maintains?

Sirius definitely make some lovely small deck saloon boats - but, length for length, they make Halberg Rassy look like bargain basement

 

[ashtead]

Don't disagree as to Sirius price but this might be the last boat the OP buys and he is no doubt a man of taste and quality so might be prepared to blow the budget .

 

[Concerto]

Not quite a full motor sailer, but what about a new Haber 800. It is 26 foot long, so about the right size. I was quite impressed when I viewed one at last years London Boat Show.
http://haber-yachts.com/index.php?page=en-hb800s-rys
In the photos of interior options is an internal raised steering position using a remote control with the auto-pilot, so could be classed as a true motor sailer.
With a weight of about 2½ tons and a Cat B, should be able to sail reasonably well, go creek crawling and cross the Channel in reasonable weather. What more could one want as you get older?

 

[NUTMEG]

The ability to open a door from a warm saloon, wander round deck and easily adjust a sail or two, then retire to the warmth is a wonderful feeling. CWs fulfill that excellently. Have a word with Caer Urfa, who knows everything about them.

As an ex-CW owner, think their reputation as a bucket of lard is seriously erroneous.

+1. I recently sold my CW28 ketch. She sailed very well in a F4 and above. Lots of people run them down without ever having sailed one. A bugger to tack in light airs though!

 

[Nautinick]

One more for the LM !

Bought mine a few seasons back for exactly the same reason as the OP. It's comfortable, well made and easy to sail either from the cockpit with the tiller when it's warm and sunny or from the wheelhouse when it's not. LM were originally furniture manufacturers before getting into grp wind turbine blades and boats so the woodworking is of a high standard. The sailing ability is a lot better than l expected certainly better than the Feeling and Moody's l have owned.

Sadly my LM30 is for sale due to health reasons that even a good quality Scandinavian boat can't help but l would certainly recommend them to anyone who sails in our weather !

 

[dunedin]

+1. I recently sold my CW28 ketch. She sailed very well in a F4 and above. Lots of people run them down without ever having sailed one. A bugger to tack in light airs though!

But I guess many of us, and particularly those retired and able to choose their days, prefer to go sailing in F4 and below. The joy of an efficient sailing boat is sailing at 5 knots in 7 knots true wind.
Of course each to their own

 

[ashtead]

I see there is an LM32 for sale in the boats for sale section which refers to an article in a sailing mag of 2013 which might be of interest BTW . I also saw the Haber mentioned by Concerto and I believe a review exists. It was certainly one of the more interesting boats of recent years in this space.

 

[jwilson]

But I guess many of us, and particularly those retired and able to choose their days, prefer to go sailing in F4 and below. The joy of an efficient sailing boat is sailing at 5 knots in 7 knots true wind.
Of course each to their own

Agree fully - I personally don't want either a motor boat or one that needs the engine to go well in under F4. The OP was looking for a boat for a good ex-dinghy racer. Sailing dinghies I find boats that don't plane - ie Drascombes etc. - dull. Many years ago I always fancied a Drasombe Lugger - till I actually sailed one. Yet for some these and CWs are the perfect boat: I just don't see the OP's father enjoying sailing one, though I could be wrong.

 

[wombat88]

I went through this exercise last year before giving up. One of my key requirements was the ability to dry out upright.

Three boats around the 20ft mark and £5-10k:

Cox Master Mariner (My favourite but hard to find)
Steadfast 24 (Probably the best sailer of the three)
Swin Ranger (Cheapest and lightest but apparently good)

When looking at a small motor sailer that dries there is a fundamental problem...shallow draft / headroom / inboard...all makes for something with significant 'top hamper'! Over 30ft and it all gets much better.

 

[Sybarite]

I also saw the Haber mentioned by Concerto and I believe a review exists. It was certainly one of the more interesting boats of recent years in this space.

Very expensive though. I visited a 660 but found that I could hardly turn round inside. The idea is good but, in practice.....

 

[Concerto]

Very expensive though. I visited a 660 but found that I could hardly turn round inside. The idea is good but, in practice.....

The Haber 660 may be, but I suggested the 800 which is a lot bigger. I felt it would sail reasonable well compared to a traditional motor sailer. It is more multi purpose and would offer the OP's dad a perfect solution - provided it is within budget.

 

[LadyInBed]

Swin Ranger (Cheapest and lightest but apparently good)

I had one for 16 years, sailed it to and round N Brittany and through the canals to the Med twice.

 

[oldmanofthehills]

Anyway, my Dad is now late 70s and sailing his small Beneteau through the winter is too much.

I suggested a Colvic Watson 26 as something he can sail with all year round in comfort. I think he'll sacrifice the sailing performance for a hot cup of tea and a pilot house. Anyway what other options can you think of in terms of a motor sailor that is 25-30ft given that he is a sailor at heart and not a motorboater.

What price bracket are you after? Some of the answers here assume a late 70s gent has the spending power of a young banker. I am facing a similar decision maybe in 5 or 10 years and my thoughts are mostly around CW26, or CW30 if I can afford it as I like ketches. I have been advised that LM28s are not bad and they look pretty enough but I don't know enough about them. Certainly go for warm dry wheelhouse even if you have to forego a rear steering positition

 

[pvb]

What price bracket are you after?

Yes, that is a fairly basic starting point.

 

[robmcg]

How about a Fjord 33. One for sale with Plymouth Boatshed.

 

[Arcady]

How about a Fjord 33. One for sale with Plymouth Boatshed.

There will be some work to do, I imagine....

 

[rotrax]

With your Dad's background I think a Colvic lump might be too far on the sail / motor / not much good at either scale.

A good late model Centaur with a sprayhood will sail well ( not much rewarding ' feel ' on the tiller though ) and motor well, assuming it has been re-engined by now.

The LM's are worth a look too but I thought the interiors very stark and angular, in a bruising sort of way.

Westerly Merlin / Vulcan / Konsort / Griffin with a sprayhood ?

The earlier Southerlys have horrendous underwater profiles with DRAG written all over them; I'd think a decent sailing boat with a good sprayhood might be the answer.

There is ABSOLUTLY no comparison with an enclosed pilot house yacht and an aft cockpit yacht with a sprayhood.

First mate and I have travelled over 3,000 NM since May 2015 in our boat with its huge pilothouse.

Our expensive wet weather gear and seaboots have been out just twice, both times berthing in the pissing rain.

IMHO, of course.............................

 

[robmcg]

There will be some work to do, I imagine....

Actually I used to see her regularly when we were based in Plymouth and she was pretty well maintained. Even been on her a few times. Solid as a rock.