Small dry powder fire extinguisher with a hose?

[Aeolus]

Are you sure about that

https://www.safelincs.co.uk/1-litre-water-mist-fire-extinguisher-ultrafire/

Fairly sure. The RYA and the Boat Safety Scheme recommend a minimum number and capacity of extinguishers. https://www.rya.org.uk/knowledge-advice/safe-boating/look-after-yourself/Pages/fire.aspx

So for my 30' boat, I need 2 extinguishers with a total of 13A/89B rating. Because water mist is a relatively new technology, they haven't allowed for it in their recommendations, nor have water mist extinguishers been given any A or B ratings. I think you would find that most insurance companies would expect you to comply with the RYA recommendations and any surveyor would recommend likewise. Happy to be proven wrong as I would quite like to have a water mist extinguisher. But if I end up having also to buy powder (or other older-tech) extinguishers to keep the insurance company happy, then it doesn't make sense - I don't want to have to carry lots of extinguishers on the boat.

 

[[70521]]

Fairly sure. The RYA and the Boat Safety Scheme recommend a minimum number and capacity of extinguishers. https://www.rya.org.uk/knowledge-advice/safe-boating/look-after-yourself/Pages/fire.aspx

So for my 30' boat, I need 2 extinguishers with a total of 13A/89B rating. Because water mist is a relatively new technology, they haven't allowed for it in their recommendations, nor have water mist extinguishers been given any A or B ratings. I think you would find that most insurance companies would expect you to comply with the RYA recommendations and any surveyor would recommend likewise. Happy to be proven wrong as I would quite like to have a water mist extinguisher. But if I end up having also to buy powder (or other older-tech) extinguishers to keep the insurance company happy, then it doesn't make sense - I don't want to have to carry lots of extinguishers on the boat.

Drop your insurance company an e-mail. I have always found them extremely helpful.

Visited mine at the Southampton Boat Show and learned a whole bunch of stuff from them.

 

[JohnGC]

Fairly sure. The RYA and the Boat Safety Scheme recommend a minimum number and capacity of extinguishers. https://www.rya.org.uk/knowledge-advice/safe-boating/look-after-yourself/Pages/fire.aspx

So for my 30' boat, I need 2 extinguishers with a total of 13A/89B rating. Because water mist is a relatively new technology, they haven't allowed for it in their recommendations, nor have water mist extinguishers been given any A or B ratings. I think you would find that most insurance companies would expect you to comply with the RYA recommendations and any surveyor would recommend likewise. Happy to be proven wrong as I would quite like to have a water mist extinguisher. But if I end up having also to buy powder (or other older-tech) extinguishers to keep the insurance company happy, then it doesn't make sense - I don't want to have to carry lots of extinguishers on the boat.

I have some sympathy with this point of view and generally do everything I can to ensure the terms of my insurance are complied with. But it seems more important that fire-fighting should be effective, simple and safe.

Powder renders the cabin unsafe because it creates a white-out (see the crash boat test video: https://youtu.be/aL_VdzjM-24?t=9m47s) and it can damage engines.

CO2 doesn't remove heat and removing O2 can be a problem if we still need to breath in the area.

Water mist suppress smoke and clears the air in addition to removing heat and O2 from the fire. The A/B issue isn't a problem with the larger 3l size https://www.safelincs.co.uk/overview-fire-extinguishers-by-rating It's not approved for class C but still looks effective in the video https://www.safelincs.co.uk/templates_safelincs/videos/jewel_water-mist_demonstration.mp4

We have 2 X 1 litre below decks plus a 3 litre in the cockpit locker. In addition we have a number of large fire blankets which could be used as shields to enable egress from the cabins in addition to fighting a fire.

 

[[70521]]

We have 2 X 1 litre below decks plus a 3 litre in the cockpit locker.

Brilliant, you have just answered the question "where am I going to put this 3 litre lump I have for an engine fire" as I can lead the hose into the engine compartment.

 

[JohnGC]

Brilliant, you have just answered the question "where am I going to put this 3 litre lump I have for an engine fire" as I can lead the hose into the engine compartment.

Our thoughts exactly.

The 3 litre comes with a plastic cover/ring over the base and a mild steel (zintec?) lift-off hook to prevent it falling over. That hook rusts in our cockpit atmosphere, so needs a little additional protection (I sprayed it with T-9). The extinguisher itself shows no signs of rust after 12 months.

But DO NOT let it freeze! Even here in Plymouth last winter it got cold enough in the cockpit locker while the boat was out of the water @ Blagdons and I had to buy a new one. The refill cost with shipping is about the same as a new one.

 

[[70521]]

Our thoughts exactly.
But DO NOT let it freeze! Even here in Plymouth last winter it got cold enough in the cockpit locker while the boat was out of the water @ Blagdons and I had to buy a new one. The refill cost with shipping is about the same as a new one.

We are both in Plymouth and last winter was colder than usual, for Devon.

I'm afloat all winter this year, but will keep an eye on the pack ice in the Sound.

 

[JumbleDuck]

Coo. Having read up on them and watched the videos, I'm convinced. I'm having one of those for the boat.

Carbon dioxide extinguishers should NOT be used in small confined spaces as the gas will quickly replace the oxygen and may asphyxiate if inhaled.

Of course, but I am not sure how that's relevant to water mist extinguishers.

 

[moomba]

Sorry if I have misinterpreted your thread, but I read it as Coo as 1 carbon molecule and 2 oxygen molecules making Carbon Dioxide my mistake

 

[JohnGC]

Sorry if I have misinterpreted your thread, but I read it as Coo as 1 carbon molecule and 2 oxygen molecules making Carbon Dioxide my mistake

Although CO2 isn't poisonous, it quenches fire by replacing the O2. In a confined space, that may effect us also.

It is the build-up of CO2 in our lungs that causes the breathing reflex. If we continue to hold our breath, we experience the CO2 build-up as the need to breath. I was once foolish enough to take a breath of medical CO2; one breath, instant feelings of panic! Not something I'd which to repeat while fighting a

 

[penberth3]

Although CO2 isn't poisonous, it quenches fire by replacing the O2. In a confined space, that may effect us also...

Not sure how you define "poisonous", but in a confined space CO2 is lethal.

 

[JohnGC]

Not sure how you define "poisonous", but in a confined space CO2 is lethal.

More or less the dictionary definition; chemical or other action on a molecular scale.

I'm thinking of a comparison with CO (moomba) which binds with haemoglobin in preference to O2 and can have lasting effects. The CO2 from an extinguisher may asphyxiate or cause panic but so far as I know it isn't actually poisonous.

 

[Daydream believer]

Powder renders the cabin unsafe because it creates a white-out .

I had a petrol fire in my Stella in the North Sea in the 70's. The petrol ignited & was sloshing all through the bilges on top of buckets of water my crew first threw on it. It could only be accessed by lifting the cabin & cockpit floor boards. It went 2/3 of the length of the boat. I discharged 2 fire extinguishers before I managed to put it out & apart from getting a load in my crew's kit & ruining his suit there was no issues with white - out. I had to blast the powder back & forth because the petrol kept flowing back & forth along the top of the water so it was certainly sprayed everywhere. There was a mess & we washed the powder into the bilges with copious amounts of water. until we did that it was like trying to stand on ice . I would recommend Chubb powder extinguishers every time. In fact I now have 4 in my house & 2 in my man cave.

 

[JohnGC]

I had a petrol fire in my Stella in the North Sea in the 70's. The petrol ignited & was sloshing all through the bilges on top of buckets of water my crew first threw on it. It could only be accessed by lifting the cabin & cockpit floor boards. It went 2/3 of the length of the boat. I discharged 2 fire extinguishers before I managed to put it out & apart from getting a load in my crew's kit & ruining his suit there was no issues with white - out. I had to blast the powder back & forth because the petrol kept flowing back & forth along the top of the water so it was certainly sprayed everywhere. There was a mess & we washed the powder into the bilges with copious amounts of water. until we did that it was like trying to stand on ice . I would recommend Chubb powder extinguishers every time. In fact I now have 4 in my house & 2 in my man cave.

I find that surprising. The fire service specifically say that dry powder shouldn't be used in enclosed spaces, such as offices or domestic dwellings. You couldn't be mistaking it for foam could you?

 

[Daydream believer]

I find that surprising. The fire service specifically say that dry powder shouldn't be used in enclosed spaces, such as offices or domestic dwellings. You couldn't be mistaking it for foam could you?

Chubb used to do my bi annual fire extinguisher inspection & service to my factories & offices etc. I got the 2 Chubb FOC as we had so many. They were ........ "Monnex" Dry Powder for flammable liquid fires, gas & electrical........ They supplied several in the offices.

 

[[70521]]

I find that surprising. The fire service specifically say that dry powder shouldn't be used in enclosed spaces, such as offices or domestic dwellings. You couldn't be mistaking it for foam could you?

If it was foam Daydream believe was not using it in the correct way. For liquid fires foam should be laid as a blanket starting the far end of the fire and working towards you.

I am beginning to get quite worried about how little is know and taught about firefighting in boating circles. Perhaps an opportunity for the RYA or local clubs to contact the fire service and get some advice and guidance/talks set up on how to use fire extinguishers on boats.

 

[JohnGC]

Chubb used to do my bi annual fire extinguisher inspection & service to my factories & offices etc. I got the 2 Chubb FOC as we had so many. They were ........ "Monnex" Dry Powder for flammable liquid fires, gas & electrical........ They supplied several in the offices.

I think the advice & regulations may have changed since then, depending on how long ago it was. However, a quick Google for "Monnex" suggests it's a premium product and not just any powder.

 

[Daydream believer]

I think the advice & regulations may have changed since then, depending on how long ago it was. However, a quick Google for "Monnex" suggests it's a premium product and not just any powder.

Well it certainly was not gun powder!!!!!!!!! It was in the 70's & yes I have since (last 15 years) been on 2 courses covering the use of fire extinguishers. One with the CITB & one with a company that I was acting in a consultancy role to & got the chance to attend. Could not remember anything after 30 days. I doubt anyone else could either..... I suspect that sending boat users on these is about as useful as attending the RYA sponsored first aid course. I had forgotten that in a couple of months ----- But I have the sustifticates so I am OK

 

[moomba]

More or less the dictionary definition; chemical or other action on a molecular scale.

I'm thinking of a comparison with CO (moomba) which binds with haemoglobin in preference to O2 and can have lasting effects. The CO2 from an extinguisher may asphyxiate or cause panic but so far as I know it isn't actually poisonous.

good point ,No the product in itself is not poisonous, but As the concentration of carbon dioxide increases, people start to experience carbon dioxide intoxication, which may progress to carbon dioxide poisoning and sometimes death. Elevated blood and tissue levels of carbon dioxide are termed hypercapnia and hypercarbia.

 

[penberth3]

good point ,No the product in itself is not poisonous, but As the concentration of carbon dioxide increases, people start to experience carbon dioxide intoxication, which may progress to carbon dioxide poisoning and sometimes death. Elevated blood and tissue levels of carbon dioxide are termed hypercapnia and hypercarbia.

That's the point I was trying to make. CO2 is poisonous, and you mention the toxic effects. At a high concentration it will asphyxiate you quickly, possibly before you notice any toxic effects. I thought JohnGC was making light of the hazards in his original post.

 

[JohnGC]

That's the point I was trying to make. CO2 is poisonous, and you mention the toxic effects. At a high concentration it will asphyxiate you quickly, possibly before you notice any toxic effects. I thought JohnGC was making light of the hazards in his original post.

I think you're right and I now realise CO2 can indeed be poisonous.