Corribee Boy
Well-Known Member
Yes, the 3D is the one I mentioned in post 5 - sigh - was in stock at Seamark Nunn.
Small boats and dinghy storage
- Thread starter Neil
- Start date
Seajet
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My Seago 230 round tail is happy with my trusty Mariner 2hp 2 stroke on the outboard bracket supplied.
LustyD, I think your problem is 4 stroke engines, not round tails; I wouldn't have a 4 stroke main or tender engine as the weight is a daft embuggerance in both cases, and extra weight like this will kill performance of a 20-22' boat.
My Mariner 2 is from 1986 and has survived numerous immersions, though has required two sets of big end bearings ( an easy job ) - if faced with a 4 stroke or nothing I'd stick to oars, the weight is unacceptable, not least to my back.
Incidentally while the space under my cockpit might qualify as a ' single aft cabin ' if I fitted a portlight there judging by what I've seen on some modern boats, a 230 with a solid transom has no hope of fitting, I've tried a friends'.
When choosing a replacement for my much missed Zodiac 240 roundtail, I made myself up a little table on the following criteria among Waveline, Wetline & Seago;
weight - much the same
Price - varies a lot, shop around ! I found Force 4 best
Tube size - all the same unless paying much more
Air deck - new to me but as I suspected a lot better than wooden slats, one just uses ' suck ' mode on the pump to empty it, like the main tubes.
--- Wooden floor slats - beware, some dinghies have just 2-3 large pieces which would be a pain to stow and probably right faff when setting up or stowing the boat.
I found when I tabulated it all that the Seago was the winner.
Frankly I was not all that happy when I bought it as I couldn't help comparing to the Zodiac which had been a very good faithful friend for over 30 years, but now I have used it a few times I am pleasantly surprised, the material seems tough, the stowage bag is actually big enough to work without the aid of Uri Geller, and the pump & valve system is good once one works it out.
My Seago was around £340 from Force 4, recommended - no connection.
Mine is at home at the moment, when back there I'll measure and photograph it in folded state if that's of use to anyone.
LustyD, I think your problem is 4 stroke engines, not round tails; I wouldn't have a 4 stroke main or tender engine as the weight is a daft embuggerance in both cases, and extra weight like this will kill performance of a 20-22' boat.
My Mariner 2 is from 1986 and has survived numerous immersions, though has required two sets of big end bearings ( an easy job ) - if faced with a 4 stroke or nothing I'd stick to oars, the weight is unacceptable, not least to my back.
Incidentally while the space under my cockpit might qualify as a ' single aft cabin ' if I fitted a portlight there judging by what I've seen on some modern boats, a 230 with a solid transom has no hope of fitting, I've tried a friends'.
When choosing a replacement for my much missed Zodiac 240 roundtail, I made myself up a little table on the following criteria among Waveline, Wetline & Seago;
weight - much the same
Price - varies a lot, shop around ! I found Force 4 best
Tube size - all the same unless paying much more
Air deck - new to me but as I suspected a lot better than wooden slats, one just uses ' suck ' mode on the pump to empty it, like the main tubes.
--- Wooden floor slats - beware, some dinghies have just 2-3 large pieces which would be a pain to stow and probably right faff when setting up or stowing the boat.
I found when I tabulated it all that the Seago was the winner.
Frankly I was not all that happy when I bought it as I couldn't help comparing to the Zodiac which had been a very good faithful friend for over 30 years, but now I have used it a few times I am pleasantly surprised, the material seems tough, the stowage bag is actually big enough to work without the aid of Uri Geller, and the pump & valve system is good once one works it out.
My Seago was around £340 from Force 4, recommended - no connection.
Mine is at home at the moment, when back there I'll measure and photograph it in folded state if that's of use to anyone.
rwoofer
Well-Known Member
I always found that towing made massive difference to speed unless off-the-wind in good breeze. I have a Lodestar 220UL (ultra-lightweight), but gave up trying to get it into the forecabin of my 20 footer, which is basically why I gave up on proper tenders as I really couldn't get much smaller.
lustyd
Well-Known Member
I did say modern engines. Pointless rehashing the same old discussion but since 2 strokes are unavailable then older round tail dinghies will gradually be harder to find engines for which is a shame considering how well they last. I've not tried a modern round tail with the larger tubes so these may be ok.
lustyd
Well-Known Member
Perhaps it's because of the low speed my boat normally does there's less room for impact
Seajet
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LustyD,
I must say I never tow a dinghy more than a few yards, massive drag even with the bows held up to the pushpit and also a right pain if the weather goes downhill and the thing tries to turn into a kite, or if a rigid dinghy a surfboard quickly followed by inverted submarine !
Good 2 stroke engines are still available secondhand if one is careful and OK with working on engines.
My Zodiac roundtail with large tubes was happy with a 4-5 hp 2-stroke hung on it, I don't think I'd try that on the smaller tube Seago dinghy but it's happy with the light Mariner 2hp 2 stroke; I don't think there's much difference with buoyancy comparing roundtail to solid transom, it's the rigidity of the mount.
How anyone uses a small 4 stroke engine on a tender on & off any size boat beats me, asking for back trouble and a dunking unless one can fix up a davit of some kind; I bet your Vivacity would show her thanks if you sourced a Mariner / Yamaha 2 2 stroke !
I must say I never tow a dinghy more than a few yards, massive drag even with the bows held up to the pushpit and also a right pain if the weather goes downhill and the thing tries to turn into a kite, or if a rigid dinghy a surfboard quickly followed by inverted submarine !
Good 2 stroke engines are still available secondhand if one is careful and OK with working on engines.
My Zodiac roundtail with large tubes was happy with a 4-5 hp 2-stroke hung on it, I don't think I'd try that on the smaller tube Seago dinghy but it's happy with the light Mariner 2hp 2 stroke; I don't think there's much difference with buoyancy comparing roundtail to solid transom, it's the rigidity of the mount.
How anyone uses a small 4 stroke engine on a tender on & off any size boat beats me, asking for back trouble and a dunking unless one can fix up a davit of some kind; I bet your Vivacity would show her thanks if you sourced a Mariner / Yamaha 2 2 stroke !
Kelpie
Well-Known Member
My tohatsu 2 stroke is about 13kg
The Suzuki 4 stroke I use at work is about 13.5kg
Hardly the end of the world!
Maybe the weight difference becomes significant when you get to 4hp or more?
The Suzuki 4 stroke I use at work is about 13.5kg
Hardly the end of the world!
Maybe the weight difference becomes significant when you get to 4hp or more?
Seajet
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Mavanier,
I cannot easily weigh my engines just for the sake of discussing here, but the Mariner 2 2-stroke is a breeze to carry one-handed, the Mariner 5 2-stroke less so but still easily manageable.
EVERY 4 stroke outboard I have handled or looked up has been like some joker has bolted it to the floor !
This is of particular interest to me as I have to handle my small engine on & off the pushpit like most people, and the main engine in and out of its' well, so I regularly try lifting any outboard I get the chance to.
I was under the impression it's actually worse with tender engines, the 2hp 2 strokes being in demand.
I know someone in Southern Ireland who managed to buy a Mariner 5hp 2 stroke new quite recently, a dealer had seen the writing on the wall and ordered a large batch; I mentioned it here and the legalities were discussed, afraid I forget the answer as I'm happy with my engines.
I cannot easily weigh my engines just for the sake of discussing here, but the Mariner 2 2-stroke is a breeze to carry one-handed, the Mariner 5 2-stroke less so but still easily manageable.
EVERY 4 stroke outboard I have handled or looked up has been like some joker has bolted it to the floor !
This is of particular interest to me as I have to handle my small engine on & off the pushpit like most people, and the main engine in and out of its' well, so I regularly try lifting any outboard I get the chance to.
I was under the impression it's actually worse with tender engines, the 2hp 2 strokes being in demand.
I know someone in Southern Ireland who managed to buy a Mariner 5hp 2 stroke new quite recently, a dealer had seen the writing on the wall and ordered a large batch; I mentioned it here and the legalities were discussed, afraid I forget the answer as I'm happy with my engines.
lustyd
Well-Known Member
My Zodiac roundtail with large tubes was happy with a 4-5 hp 2-stroke hung on it, I don't think I'd try that on the smaller tube Seago dinghy but it's happy with the light Mariner 2hp 2 stroke; I don't think there's much difference with buoyancy comparing roundtail to solid transom, it's the rigidity of the mount.
How anyone uses a small 4 stroke engine on a tender on & off any size boat beats me, asking for back trouble and a dunking unless one can fix up a davit of some kind; I bet your Vivacity would show her thanks if you sourced a Mariner / Yamaha 2 2 stroke !
Yes it was certainly the movement of the boat causing issue rather than buoyancy. The engine was pushing into the tube.
Lifting on and off is easy - the Vivacity is very low so I only have to lift about 2 feet
The big boat is quite happy with the extra weight as far as I can tell.Simso
Member
My Honda 2.3hp (4stroke) weighs 13kg.
The weight argument doesn't exist if we are talking about the small Suzuki or Honda 4 strokes.
It also works well on the Waveline 2.3 round tail I have albeit a tiller extension is advisable if the only weight is myself.
The weight argument doesn't exist if we are talking about the small Suzuki or Honda 4 strokes.
It also works well on the Waveline 2.3 round tail I have albeit a tiller extension is advisable if the only weight is myself.
Seajet
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Either there has been a change in the earth's gravity field, a quantum leap in 4-stroke engineering, or maybe the argument and difference does exist but you are sadly used to a heavy 4 stroke 2.3 !
Simso
Member
My tohatsu 2 stroke is about 13kg
The Suzuki 4 stroke I use at work is about 13.5kg
Hardly the end of the world!
Maybe the weight difference becomes significant when you get to 4hp or more?
Completely agree with the previous post above.
As I said, what's the difference in weight between the Suzuki and the ultra light Tohatsu?
Or my Honda at 13kg?
What more evidence do you need? 13kg = 13kg
The Suzuki 4 stroke I use at work is about 13.5kg
Hardly the end of the world!
Maybe the weight difference becomes significant when you get to 4hp or more?
Completely agree with the previous post above.
As I said, what's the difference in weight between the Suzuki and the ultra light Tohatsu?
Or my Honda at 13kg?
What more evidence do you need? 13kg = 13kg
Seajet
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I need the evidence of weighing my truly light engines, and might be more convinced if you had compared the two...
obmij
Well-Known Member
'What to do with the dink' is a massive annoyance for me - but a good example of compromises necessary on a boat.
If I tow the fecker, chances are the wind will pick up and it'll invert and I'll have all sorts of ballache thereafter. If the wind doesn't pick up then it will take 3/4 knot off my already slow motoring speed, causing me stress as I face the prospect of plugging a tide. Hauling it onboard is of course a possibility but getting it over the guardrails solo is a right pain and makes me fear for my stantions and then of course where do you put it? Foredeck is possible deflated but fouls the genoa when tacking. Right now it's midships below the boom but chafes a bit when kicker is on.
A smaller dinghy (I have a 2.6m) would be prudent given that I'm mostly on my own, but I felt that my last 2.3 was unsafe in a chop with a toddler. OK you can 'choose your conditions' but the one way to guarantee a nasty chop is too anchor off with the family and a small dink. So no I'm overdinghyed 90% of the time but a lot happier the other 10%. The other issues remain the same
If I tow the fecker, chances are the wind will pick up and it'll invert and I'll have all sorts of ballache thereafter. If the wind doesn't pick up then it will take 3/4 knot off my already slow motoring speed, causing me stress as I face the prospect of plugging a tide. Hauling it onboard is of course a possibility but getting it over the guardrails solo is a right pain and makes me fear for my stantions and then of course where do you put it? Foredeck is possible deflated but fouls the genoa when tacking. Right now it's midships below the boom but chafes a bit when kicker is on.
A smaller dinghy (I have a 2.6m) would be prudent given that I'm mostly on my own, but I felt that my last 2.3 was unsafe in a chop with a toddler. OK you can 'choose your conditions' but the one way to guarantee a nasty chop is too anchor off with the family and a small dink. So no I'm overdinghyed 90% of the time but a lot happier the other 10%. The other issues remain the same
seumask
Well-Known Member
Rb
Our good friends with a Jeanueau Sun 2000 used either a 230 RT or a Bombard ax2 which stored rolled up across the back of the cockpit underneath the tiller. so I know it can be sorted with a small tender.
Seumask
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jakeroyd
Well-Known Member
I used to have a Bombard AX1 , it folds really small and used to fit in my cockpit locker (24.5ft Hunter)
However , I did find it small and you had to be carefull about overloading.
I sold it to another forum member who has a 19' boat.
For him I think it's a perfect compromise. Does not take up much space and does the job.
Not cheap though!
However , I did find it small and you had to be carefull about overloading.
I sold it to another forum member who has a 19' boat.
For him I think it's a perfect compromise. Does not take up much space and does the job.
Not cheap though!
Seajet
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seumask,
do I take it you know rb's boat and are referring to a sistership ?
Otherwise it obviously depends on the boat, no way can I stow anything under my tiller as that's where the well and fuel locker are; but on my boat I'm able to stow a decent 230 RT below the cockpit, accessed from the saloon.
On cross Channel trips I usually have the dinghy half inflated and lashed to the foredeck.
do I take it you know rb's boat and are referring to a sistership ?
Otherwise it obviously depends on the boat, no way can I stow anything under my tiller as that's where the well and fuel locker are; but on my boat I'm able to stow a decent 230 RT below the cockpit, accessed from the saloon.
On cross Channel trips I usually have the dinghy half inflated and lashed to the foredeck.
rwoofer
Well-Known Member
Thx. I tried that but found it was too much in the way. I chose the Lodestar (for my RM originally) because it had fat tubes for its short 220 length, so maybe that is what makes it more bulky? To be honest I'm often finding waders to be the most useful shore transport.