Small arms on a yacht?

mainsail1 said:
I have read the fire arms legislation and I think people are getting confused. So long as a firearm is part of a ship's equipment and does not leave the ship I still believe what I said above is correct. I think Graham M376 has even quoted the appropriate section of the 'overview issued by the Home Office.

To clarify, IMHO, if you want to buy the guns that are to be ship's equipment in the UK you would need to either have a relevant firearms certificate or ask the provider who will have a firearms licence, to bring the items to the ship.
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That may very well be right: I've no idea. But presumably it's just the means by which one might legally get a gun on board a yacht in British waters. Arriving in a foreign port, other rules would surely apply. (Plenty, if not most, entry forms specifically ask if there are firearms aboard.) Since only the truly paranoid might imagine that firearms are necessary in UK waters, isn't the latter the prevailing practical issue?
 
I think the relevant part is
'Ship and hovercraft equipment
6.51 No certificate is necessary to authorise the possession of firearms and ammunition subject
to section 1 of the 1968 Act on board ship as part of the ship’s equipment (section 13(1)(a)'

I think you could say a very pistol is part of the ships equipment, I cannot see that a handgun. shotgun or rifle can in any reasonable way be considered as a legitimate part of the ships equipment
 
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jordanbasset said:
I think the relevant part is
'Ship and hovercraft equipment
6.51 No certificate is necessary to authorise the possession of firearms and ammunition subject
to section 1 of the 1968 Act on board ship as part of the ship’s equipment (section 13(1)
I think you could say a very pistol is part of the ships equipment, I cannot see that a handgun. shotgun or rifle can in any reasonable way be considered as a legitimate part of the ships equipment
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I remember in 1967 when I sailed on a UK registered iron ore carrier from UK to Africa/ Canada and back to UK the ship's master had a locked gun cabinet just outside of his cabin in the corridor. No idea exactly what guns he had but I was told they were carried for protection. I have no reason to think things have changed. Anyone have first hand info?
 
OR4751 said:
I think you may be thinking of Spitsbergen/Svalbard.
And there is nothing alledged about it.

If you don't have a rifle of your own, the local plod will lease you one for the duration of your stay.
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Likewise Greenland, but usually from a hire shop.
 
jordanbasset said:
I think you could say a very pistol is part of the ships equipment, I cannot see that a handgun. shotgun or rifle can in any reasonable way be considered as a legitimate part of the ships equipment
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Apart from signalling equipment I don't think firearms have a place on a pleasure boat for reasons already well stated in earlier posts. I am by the way not anti-guns and have enjoyed shooting for many years. Here's another bit of light reading - https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/firearms-law-guidance-to-the-police-2012
 
jordanbasset said:
I think the relevant part is
'Ship and hovercraft equipment
6.51 No certificate is necessary to authorise the possession of firearms and ammunition subject
to section 1 of the 1968 Act on board ship as part of the ship’s equipment (section 13(1)(a)'

I think you could say a very pistol is part of the ships equipment, I cannot see that a handgun. shotgun or rifle can in any reasonable way be considered as a legitimate part of the ships equipment
Click to expand...
These are my feelings on the matter. I can't remember the individual particulars but there's been more than one instance of people being locked up for having unlicensed shotguns on their boats.
 
Malo37 said:
Several years ago I had a Very pistol on my boat and had to get a Firearms Cert which I held for several years just for that purpose. The police informed me that if I did not get a Firearms cert the pistol must be destroyed or surrendered to the police.
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You can do a lot of damage with one of those. Many years ago I was an Auxiliary Policeman in the marine branch of the Royal Hong Kong Police. One of our launch commanders was famous for having discharged a flare into a junk that failed to stop when ordered to.
 
oldvarnish said:
Likewise Greenland, but usually from a hire shop.
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I believe they require a certificate of good behaviour, or good character or something, from the local police, eg the Met in my case, of the yacht skipper in his home country, before they let you loose with a bear gun?
 
jerrytug said:
I believe they require a certificate of good behaviour, or good character or something, from the local police, eg the Met in my case, of the yacht skipper in his home country, before they let you loose with a bear gun?
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Even that can be hard to come by in this country; I know of someone who wanted some basic firearms training from a local shooting club as he was going to Svalbard (IIRC) and would be hiring or borrowing a rifle.
The local constabulary (Lothian and Borders) took a dim view as this was for personal protection which was not "good reason".
 
Malo37 said:
No you can't. You must have a firearms certificate even for a Very pistol.
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I thought someone had recently got off on a firearms offence for possessing a Verey piston on the grounds that the barrel was too short to count ?

Boo2
 
jordanbasset said:
...I think you could say a very pistol is part of the ships equipment, I cannot see that a handgun. shotgun or rifle can in any reasonable way be considered as a legitimate part of the ships equipment
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In the example given of a trip to a country where it is a requirement for defence against polar bears then I don't see why a riflle would not be legitimately considered to be ship's equipment ?

Boo2
 
Boo2 said:
In the example given of a trip to a country where it is a requirement for defence against polar bears then I don't see why a riflle would not be legitimately considered to be ship's equipment ?

Boo2
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I expect it comes down to the circumstances. Normally a vessel in UK waters has no need for such items, just about to depart for Greenland is different.

What it really comes down to is how the gun and ammunition is acquired and how it gets onto the boat. A license is required for both and if you possess guns onboard your boat without a shotgun or firearms certificate you're going to have a very hard time convincing the law that an offence hasn't been committed at some point in the guns coming to be there.
 
Boo2 said:
I thought someone had recently got off on a firearms offence for possessing a Verey piston on the grounds that the barrel was too short to count ?

Boo2
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I find that unlikely, as one might use the precedent to avoid jail for having a sawn off shotgun.

Clearing stuff off a client's boat before sale, I found myself in possesion of a Mossberg pump action with a seven round magazine and a spare short barrel, all of which would cost me five yrs minimum under current UK laws. Needless to say, I got rid of it quickly.

Mate bought a Very pistol in a junk shop in UK and restored it to keep on his boat. To be on the safe side, he went to plod and asked if he needed a cert. They promptly tried to do him for an unlicenced firearm. He managed to talk his way out of it. This was in the 80s, I doubt that he would have got off now.

We visited Gib and declared the .357 handgun the skipper had bought as he was going down the coast of Africa. Again in the 80s, the customs were not fussed, just sealed it in a drawer for the duration of our stay. OK as long as it stayed on the boat.
 
duncan99210 said:
AFAIK a UK firearms certificate allows the holder to import a UK registered firearm into another country. Thus, if you hold the correct paperwork you can have a firearm on board, declare it to the customs on entry and you can retain the weapon. However that's only half the story. As a private citizen in UK you cannot own a pistol, only rifles and shotguns (and Very pistols). So, if the person in question is claiming to own a pistol, he's telling porkies, unless he resident in some country outside of UK.
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I suspect that you may be wrong there. I held a firearm cert for 45 years & an European one for approx 18 years.
When the officer visited me to see the place of storage & interview me he explained that it was his full time job. He said that he had to work long hours because the number of firearms ( Not just shotgun) licenses in Essex ran into hundreds. I doubt that they were all very pistol holders
 
agurney said:
Even that can be hard to come by in this country; I know of someone who wanted some basic firearms training from a local shooting club as he was going to Svalbard (IIRC) and would be hiring or borrowing a rifle.
The local constabulary (Lothian and Borders) took a dim view as this was for personal protection which was not "good reason".
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"Not a good reason" You couldn't make it up!
By the way, anyone know (just out of interest) what type of rifle is hired in Svalbord etc for bear protection? They are huge, savage carnivores so it can't be a pop gun.
I haven't used one since the good old Lee Enfield .303 in the cadets.
 
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jerrytug said:
"Not a good reason" You couldn't make it up!
By the way, anyone know (just out of interest) what type of rifle is hired in Svalbord etc for bear protection? They are huge, savage carnivores so it can't be a pop gun.
I haven't used one since the good old Lee Enfield .303 in the cadets.
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Edit, they hire out WW2 vintage Mausers in 30-06 or 7.62 NATO
 
Boo2 said:
In the example given of a trip to a country where it is a requirement for defence against polar bears then I don't see why a riflle would not be legitimately considered to be ship's equipment ?

Boo2
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Rifle may well be suitable equipment on a ship sailing certain areas but, one still needs to buy and transport one ashore which, like the Very pistol, then needs a license.
 
So what happens if a British Citizen purchases a hand gun legally in another country, then brings the weapon back to the UK and the gun never leaves the yacht?
 
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