Small arms on a yacht?

[duncan99210]

There is a class of weapons that are prohibited in the UK, including handguns. To possess one requires a permit from the Home Secretary, even if it is part of the equipment of a UK registered vessel. The section of the guidance document quoted at #15 does give a ship the ability to have a weapon on board but later sections of the guidance and the laws it summarises detail which weapons may form part of a ships equipment and how you can go about obtaining them. From my reading of the document the only people who can get authorisation for prohibited weapons permits will be employees of civilian security contractors providing services to UK registered vessels in excess of 500 tonnes in the area off the southern end of the Red Sea. So no matter how you obtained a handgun you can't simply say it's part of the ships equipment and expect to keep it.

 

[macd]

So what happens if a British Citizen purchases a hand gun legally in another country, then brings the weapon back to the UK and the gun never leaves the yacht?

If it never leaves the yacht, you'd be OK. But the arresting officer would take it...and you...with him

 

[Koeketiene]

If it never leaves the yacht, you'd be OK. But the arresting officer would take it...and you...with him

Does plod regularly (ever?) stop yachts to search for weapons?

 

[jordanbasset]

In the example given of a trip to a country where it is a requirement for defence against polar bears then I don't see why a riflle would not be legitimately considered to be ship's equipment ?

Boo2

I can just see the interview with the British Police now
P.C. - 'So why do you have a large calibre rifle on board your boar sir'
Boat owner - 'well Officer it's in case I get attacked by a polar bear'

 

[macd]

Does plod regularly (ever?) stop yachts to search for weapons?

I think my post covered all possible outcomes of the scenario raised by Mister E: the weapon staying aboard or not. Any analysis of likelyhood is up to the the chap with the gun...or the armed criminal, if you want another way of putting it.

 

[Woodlouse]

I think this rather sums up the laws opinion of keeping weapons on board in the UK.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/england/devon/8543537.stm

 

[Mister E]

So how would you hand the gun over without being arrested?
If you just threw it away then there may be a record of the purchase and nothing to show where it is.

 

[Blue Sunray]

Personal protection isn't a valid reason for a UK firearms certificate AFAIK. Smells like walting to me.

Pete

There is a class of weapons that are prohibited in the UK, including handguns.

Not just you two, but many on this thread need a lesson in the difference between the UK, Great Britain and England and Wales - in particular with respect to legal structures. In parts of the UK handgun ownership is still perfectly legal (provided a valid FAC is held) and personal protection is a valid reason for the issue of a certificate.

 

[macd]

So how would you hand the gun over without being arrested?
If you just threw it away then there may be a record of the purchase and nothing to show where it is.

The most economic solution would probably be not to buy it in the first place. But if you still did, you could always video its demise: most people have the means, these days. But if you want to be utterly above board, offer the sceario to HMG and ask their advice. I'm sure it'd get you on their Christmas card list.

Speaking of which, have a merry one. And may all your bangs be crackers

 

[duncan99210]

Not just you two, but many on this thread need a lesson in the difference between the UK, Great Britain and England and Wales - in particular with respect to legal structures. In parts of the UK handgun ownership is still perfectly legal (provided a valid FAC is held) and personal protection is a valid reason for the issue of a certificate.

Within the limited circumstance still prevailing in parts of the UK, you are correct. However, we were discussing the concept of weapons on board boats and ships. The conditions I outlined in my post are correct in those circumstances.

 

[agurney]

Not just you two, but many on this thread need a lesson in the difference between the UK, Great Britain and England and Wales - in particular with respect to legal structures. In parts of the UK handgun ownership is still perfectly legal (provided a valid FAC is held) and personal protection is a valid reason for the issue of a certificate.

Agreed.

"Personal protection" is not a valid reason for granting a FAC in Great Britain, but can be acceptable in Northern Ireland.

Some handguns continue to be legally held on a certificate throughout the UK, for example black powder pistols and long barreled revolvers.

 

[DannyB]

Just thinking about very pistols again, and the thought occurred to me, do you need a firearm certificate for the mini flare launchers ? If you had a couple of packs of them aboard, it wouldn't be difficult to engineer a barrel to give the flare some targeting ability.

 

[agurney]

Just thinking about very pistols again, and the thought occurred to me, do you need a firearm certificate for the mini flare launchers ?

not for the mini flares.

If you had a couple of packs of them aboard, it wouldn't be difficult to engineer a barrel to give the flare some targeting ability.

not at all difficult to turn them into a weapon. I wouldn't advise it though.

 

[DownWest]

Just thinking about very pistols again, and the thought occurred to me, do you need a firearm certificate for the mini flare launchers ? If you had a couple of packs of them aboard, it wouldn't be difficult to engineer a barrel to give the flare some targeting ability.

Over in the States, there are adapters to allow a flare pistol to fire handgun rounds.

 

[Daydream believer]

If you want to make a rifle buy a .22 air gun. Bore the first 20mm of the breech end of the barrel to .25mm to take a cartridge from a nail fixing gun. ( Builders use them all the time Hilti make several types )Place a rod onto the spring of the air chamber to strike the cartridge when trigger released.
Shove a pellet up the spout,( you could use bits of bolt or nails with the head cut off) place the cartridge. Then fire. You need a rod to push the old cartridge out as it tends to expand & jam but you can at least kill your neighbour's dog rather than just ping it up the a..rse

Me officer !!?? No that is just an airgun for chasing seagulls !!!

Cartridges ???- well they are in case i want to nail some teak strips to the deck

 

[Iliade]

Agreed.

"Personal protection" is not a valid reason for granting a FAC in Great Britain, but can be acceptable in Northern Ireland.

Some handguns continue to be legally held on a certificate throughout the UK, for example black powder pistols and long barreled revolvers.

There is a fully functional black powder revolver in a nearby gun shop. It's over .50" caliber, so maybe should rightly be called a hand-cannon, but as it is an historical weapon no licence is required and any idiot could obtain gunpowder... You may need a special licence for that stuff, as it's an explosive not a propellant, however every year it is sold in cardboard apostles by practically every newsagent across the country.

As for the modifying things to do things approach, anyone with a pipe and a nail could make a firearm worthy of several years at her Majesty's pleasure, plus in self-defence one would have to be prepared to shoot first and think later, never a great plan.

 

[teredo]

Some of the replies here seem surprisingly naiive. Can anyone really believe that an unlicenced firearm imported into another country's juristiction is legal if it remains on board? Substitute Cocaine for Firearm to see the fallacy of this argument.

So far only Graham M373 has got to the nub of this matter;

Maybe some people should read the firearms act, this an excerpt and also applies to Very pistols -

Ship and hovercraft equipment
6.51 No certificate is necessary to authorise the possession of firearms and ammunition subject
to section 1 of the 1968 Act on board ship as part of the ship’s equipment (section 13(1)(a)
of the 1968 Act). A certificate is, however, required to acquire. Under section 13(1)(c) of the
1968 Act a police officer may issue a permit (form 115) authorising the removal of a firearm
to which section 1 of the 1968 Act applies (but not ammunition), to or from a ship for any
purpose specified in the permit. A permit granted by a police officer does not permit the
possession of prohibited weapons subject to section 5 of the 1968 Act.

This seems to be a pragmatic way to allow a class 1 firearm (particularly a Verey pistol which used to be carried on every vessel) but without going through the bureaucracy and potentially undesirable licensing of (often itinerant) individuals on board the ship. In any case all watchkeepers would be expected to operate the firearm and licencing them all would be next to impossible. Control of the issue and type of weapon is therefore exercised at the procurement stage. This also allows for other firearms to be carried if deemed necessary without great licencing delays. You can bet that ocean liners and cruise ships carry weapons of some sort, if only a pistol for use in extremis. It would be interesting to know what name is on the certificate; whether it is the name of the ship, the shipping company or some individual within it.
The law does try to be practical, and in this case seems to have achieved it.

in self-defence one would have to be prepared to shoot first and think later, never a great plan.

Never??? A damn sight better plan than letting the other bugger shoot first, I respectfully submit.

 

[Blue Sunray]

Never??? A damn sight better plan than letting the other bugger shoot first, I respectfully submit.

:encouragement:

 

[GrahamM376]

As for the modifying things to do things approach, anyone with a pipe and a nail could make a firearm worthy of several years at her Majesty's pleasure,

In my youth, piece of pipe with bung in one end, a penny banger and a marble used to work well. Better of course was the weedkiller mix firing rusty nails.

 

[teredo]

Graham, after all this time! How the devil is your prothetic hand anyway?