Slow start Up Perkins MD2010D

TSB240

TSB240

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I have been having a problem with Slow Cold start Up.

Between weekends I appear to be losing fuel so that I have to crank the engine for a very long period before it eventually fires with very little smoke. If I immediately stop the engine it will fire up on the first twist of the key. It will continue to do this during a normal days use. However If I leave it for 24 hours It needs to be cranked for a long period again.

I have replaced heaters and checked with an ammeter (Note to self use ammeter first before spending £14!) It is not electrical!

So my thinking is it fuel starvation or an Air Leak?

I have replaced a slightly suspect line from the secondary filter to the injector pump,checked fuel lines for leaks and made sure all lines are well secure including banjos.. No Joy!

The engine bay is spotless there are no external fuel leaks or drips..

I get full revs under load once started plenty of compression. There is no hesitation or symptoms of fuel starving once started.

So its unlikely to be lift pump problem? Or is it?

If I prime the engine with the lift pump lever it only has a small effect on reducing cranking time . I have checked at the fuel vent of the secondary filter that the lift pump is working and the fuel does not appear to back drain.

Should I be feeling some resistance on the priming lever once I have replaced the vent and have built up a head of fuel to the injector pump?

Does a lift pump have a non return valve in it as I can only think that the fuel is back siphoning into the tank somehow?

I am a Diesel virgin so I eagerly await the experts advice or others experience with this problem?

Any ideas or help much appreciated.

Steve
 
sailorman said:
possible lack of compression from oil draining from the cylinder walls when left standing.
what throttle setting do you use from cold & what is the cold start method recommended in the user manual
Click to expand...

I would then assume I would get loads of smoke on start up from injected but unburnt fuel ? None apparent.

Manual recommends starting in neutral at tick over then warming up with a little throttle. Have tried both this and starting having given a little throttle in neutral with no difference.
 
TSB240 said:
I would then assume I would get loads of smoke on start up from injected but unburnt fuel ? None apparent.

Manual recommends starting in neutral at tick over then warming up with a little throttle. Have tried both this and starting having given a little throttle in neutral with no difference.
Click to expand...
try full throttle, then back off as soon as she fires
 
TSB240 said:
Below
Click to expand...

There may be a small air leak in the primary filter, allowing fuel to drain back in to the tank. It would be worth checking and perhaps renewing the seals.

The most bewildering starting problem I've ever had was rather like yours - when left for a while the fuel drained back into the keel tank. Eventually, after replacing hoses, checking filters, etc, I traced it to a cracked banjo bolt on the tank pick-up connection. It had been overtightened, had cracked and then allowed air in.
 
Do you have a bleed nut on the fitting for the primary fuel filter on the engine? If so take it out and you should be able to see if the filter is brim full of diesel. (Turn the fuel tap off on the tank first) If it's full then the problem must surely be downstream from there.
A working engine with glow plugs should start first turn in my experience.
 
Sorry, can't help you with the starting problem but please be careful re extended cranking of the engine.

All the time you're doing that you are pumping water in. This water is normally expelled by exhaust gasses. If the engine isn't running the water will get higher and higher and eventually flood into the exhaust manifold/cylinder head. Instant fluid lock ... totally knackered engine :ambivalence:
 
Bav34 said:
Sorry, can't help you with the starting problem but please be careful re extended cranking of the engine.

All the time you're doing that you are pumping water in. This water is normally expelled by exhaust gasses. If the engine isn't running the water will get higher and higher and eventually flood into the exhaust manifold/cylinder head. Instant fluid lock ... totally knackered engine :ambivalence:
Click to expand...

Good point!
 
pvb said:
There may be a small air leak in the primary filter, allowing fuel to drain back in to the tank. It would be worth checking and perhaps renewing the seals.
Earlier in the season primary filter was leaking badly all seals and filter replaced. No sign of any leaks.

The most bewildering starting problem I've ever had was rather like yours - when left for a while the fuel drained back into the keel tank. Eventually, after replacing hoses, checking filters, etc, I traced it to a cracked banjo bolt on the tank pick-up connection. It had been overtightened, had cracked and then allowed air in.
Click to expand...

Thanks for this only thing I have not checked is the tightness of the tank pick up fitting!

Ruffles said:
Do you have a bleed nut on the fitting for the primary fuel filter on the engine? If so take it out and you should be able to see if the filter is brim full of diesel. (Turn the fuel tap off on the tank first) If it's full then the problem must surely be downstream from there.

See earlier post done this!

A working engine with glow plugs should start first turn in my experience.
Click to expand...

And Mine!
You have prompted me to look further for an electrical problem. My cheap multimeter showed good voltage (not expensive enough to measure over 10amps.) to heaters.
I will take my big ammeter and see if heaters are drawing sufficient amps!

Bav34 said:
Sorry, can't help you with the starting problem but please be careful re extended cranking of the engine.

All the time you're doing that you are pumping water in. This water is normally expelled by exhaust gasses. If the engine isn't running the water will get higher and higher and eventually flood into the exhaust manifold/cylinder head. Instant fluid lock ... totally knackered engine :ambivalence:
Click to expand...

Noted Thanks!
 
A diagnostic for air leaks mentioned here before is talc. A better method, if practicable in your set up is to insert a few cms of transparent pipe before the injection pump but after everything else.

My Saxo car had your symptoms and the bubbles in the clear pipe enabled me to locate the air leak.
 
pvb said:
There may be a small air leak in the primary filter, allowing fuel to drain back in to the tank. It would be worth checking and perhaps renewing the seals.

The most bewildering starting problem I've ever had was rather like yours - when left for a while the fuel drained back into the keel tank. Eventually, after replacing hoses, checking filters, etc, I traced it to a cracked banjo bolt on the tank pick-up connection. It had been overtightened, had cracked and then allowed air in.
Click to expand...

I'd tend to support this hypothesis - in my case it was an air-leak in the on-off tap on the top of the fuel tank. No problems when the fuel level was above the injector pump - no go when it dropped to about half-full in the tank. The leak was only of air in, never of diesel out.
 
Not mentioned yet I believe, is the problem of the lift pump only working at the set position of the engine. This won't help with the problem but might cause difficulties while sorting it out.
 
We had this exact same problem with an 2020B

Make sure the relay is working for the plugs first, then we changed the glow plugs and installed a new set of batteries now starts as soon as you turn the key no matter how long it has been.

The plugs were about 15 years old showing quite a bit of erosion and the batteries were about 9 years old and starting to deteriorate.
 
A

Thank You

everybody for your thoughts and Input.

I am off to the boat this weekend and will investigate further.

I am armed with a spare relay, a proper ammeter, filter service kit and a full workshop manual!

Just been on line and checked out the prices for a lift pump

Agricultural/ Generator supplier £45.

Marine engine supplier £137..........

Will feedback results as soon as I can.

Steve
 
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