Sloop or Ketch

[wishbone]

I have checked back through posts but cant seem to find an answer...question is.....I have narrowed down to two 42' boats one is sloop the other ketch both are long fin, what dose the team think will be best for:-
sailing to windward, speed, single or short handed sailing both are med/heavy grp displacement yachts, by the way I have only sailed sloops!

Thanks in advance for input.......!!

 

[doris]

Sloop. On a boat that size the mizzen is only any good for hanging the radar off and a mizzen staysail, which is rarely used. Extra windage, cost, maintenance and if the mizzen mast is too close to the wheel the helm gets a consatant wind down his neck. Mininum size for a ketch, IMHO of course, is 60 feet.

 

[cozy]

not sure which is likely to provide better windward performance, but depending on sailplan, ketch should be easier to handle with smaller sails. However, a mizzen to get in the way, slightly more to the rigging (but a spare mast in case you need to jury rig), no simple answer I fear....

btw, although I've sailed both, never any real distance, so I'm no expert

 

[Stingo]

I've heard it said that once a ketch owner, never a ketch owner again.

 

[Rob_Webb]

Sloop.

 

[Guest]

Post deleted by danfoley

 

[boatmike]

Having sailed and owned both I agree entirely. The sloop is easier and simpler to sail and has better performance but the ketch has many cruising advantages, not least of which is that sail areas are smaller so handing the sails, reefing, and coming about are all less dramatic. Very often on long ocean passages I continued at night under jib and mizzen alone with the boat so well balanced the autopilot had very little to do...... Also it was often nice to anchor with the mizzen holding the boat into wind....
For the sort of coastal sailing most people do though the sloop is favourite and the ultimate performance is superior. Miss the old girl sometimes though. All 23 tonnes of her!

 

[Abigail]

Planning long distance cruising we deliberately sought ketch or cutter to break down the sail plan - and we now have a 40' ketch. All the advtanges people hve already cited, plus just sailing under mizzen and genoa very easy if going only a short distance or feel like lolling about.

Very much a function of the type of sailing you plan, including number, size and experience of crew. But we're very glad to have a ketch.

 

[Talbot]

Hiscock's book "Voyaging under sail" discusses this at length, and enumerates all the advantages and disadvantages. The conclusion was that a cutter rig is the best option. A lot of this book has been redered obsolete by advances in technology, but there are a number of gems that make it a very worthwhile read, especially the long distance planning section.

 

[doris]

cutter

I quite agree about a cutter rig, having had one (41 feet) I would not dream of criuising with a huge overlaping genoa. A high cut 25% is the most you need with a cutter or a traditional yankee (I would prefer the former) makes it so easy when it blows up. But the question was about the back of the boat rather than the front.

 

[clouty]

sailed a cutter rig ketch for 10 + years. would do so again. windward performance worse, not by much, but a gentleman never goes to windward anyway. no-one has mentioned, so I will, using the mizzen to balance and steer the boat. mizz very suitable to delegate to small people, but may loose steering advantage here. is an advantage at anchor. personally, 35' is minimum for ketch rig. running with mizz staysail (ours called 'the animal') great screaming fun. Also used staysail as twin genoa, ours were similar cut, pole out the weather one. best trade rig. more bits of string to play with, good with family aboard. i could go on, but hey! i've done that already /forums/images/graemlins/wink.gif

 

[Mirelle]

42ft is a big sloop for shorthanded sailing

Although the received wisdom is that modern gear makes light work of anything, I don't really believe this. A 42ft sloop is going to be very hard work to tack and hard work to reef or change headsails. A ketch will be much easier single/short handed. yes I know Ellen MacArthur can sail anything, but I am not an Ellen MacArthur and I cannot cope well with huge headsails!

 

[Cornishman]

Re: Sloop or Ketch ...or yawl?

There used to be a fashion for yawl rig, and many of those who tried it swore that it was the answer to all your steering problems. Generally associated with a cutter rig the yawl added another dimension to manoeuvrability. I once sailed over 50 miles on a reach with a rudder which was "jammed" in fore and aft as part of an exercise. The small mizzen enabled the steersman to keep a straight course by constant attention to the mizzen sheets. Just for the fun of it we even tacked the yacht by judicious use of the mizzen and main staysail after lowering the main.
The yawl mizzen was derived to add directional stability and adds nothing to forward drive. I believe it was Blondie Hasler's inspiration for his wind vane self steering gear.
For really big yachts (say over 65 feet) schooner is the answer except in the English Channel where you always seem to be sailing on a beat, whichever way you go.

 

[Matrosen]

[ QUOTE ]
I've heard it said that once a ketch owner, never a ketch owner again.

[/ QUOTE ]

I learned to sail on sloops and my current boat is a long keeled ketch. Windward performance is not as good as most sloops but in higher and/or more difficult winds you can sail under genoa and mizzen. Sail handleing is slightly easier (but more of it). My next? boat will be a sloop.
I've heard it said that the main advantage of a ketch is that two masts look better on a photo than one!

 

[jerryat]

Definitely sloop. IMHO there's a very limited advantage in having ketch that is far outweighed by the additional costs/problems noted by others. I have several long term cruising friends with ketch rigs and can't ever remember seeing their mizzens used for anything other than a riding sail when at anchor! Most wouldn't go the ketch route again.

Cheers Jerry

 

[Ships_Cat]

As probably more than 99% of all new boats under 80 foot built, whether custom or production, are sloops I suspect that the answer is pretty obvious. Most are happier with sloops no matter where they sail between the Arctic and Antarctic.

In the end it is personal and a very few make a different choice (a ketch certainly gives fiddly people more to fiddle with if that is an attraction, which it is for some).

John

 

[Talbot]

Re: cutter

[ QUOTE ]
But the question was about the back of the boat rather than the front

[/ QUOTE ]
I interpreted the question to be primarily about the reduction in sail plan to more manageable size sails. sails forward of the mast will be handled far more than the anything else, so the bermudan or cutter rig is an appropriate item to include in the discussion.

I understand that bermudan is best to weather, and that there is little difference between the cutter rigged single mast, and a ketch or yawl when beating to weather, however, comparisons of down wind performance should also be made (especially if considering any trade wind passages) The mizzen can have a blanking effect, and direct down wind sailing on a ketch or yawl especially in light wind is an area of poorer performance.

But if you are cruising, are you that interested in performance?

 

[pragmatist]

Never sailed a ketch but do have a wonderful cutter-rigged sloop with long fin keel - sails like a a dream. HWMBO hankers after a large light-weather genny to put on the removable forestay however. As the person who rushes about the boat (somehow 40 feet seems a lot when there are only 2 of you !) I prefer the idea of only one mast to tend - and I don't find pulling up a main with some full battens v hard work - more a matter of technique. The idea of having another mast to dash to and do things with sounds daunting even if sail areas were smaller - I'd _always_ be in the wrong place /forums/images/graemlins/tongue.gif

I do like having 2 roller foresails tho - that and a slab reefed main and stack pack - roll on spring !

 

[ColdFusion]

A sloop will have a taller rig (which is better for light airs performance), will point that bit higher, will be easier to manage singlehanded (assuming adequate winches etc), will have less weight aloft (better for stability), will have less to go wrong and will be cheaper to maintain (fewer sails, spars, rigging). All else being equal, I'd go for a sloop everytime.

 

[DaveNTL]

i have also only ever sailed a sloop but have just bought a Nauticat 38

would someone please enlighten me on the advantages of the mizzen at anchor (no, not just as horizontal tent pole for an easy bimini /forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif ) as mentioned by a few posters here?

whilst writing - a report on the Nauticat 33 in YM (april 2003 i think it was) seemed to be saying that more modern keel designs have improved windward performance of ketches - the modern N33 being similar to a Moody 34 bilge keel.