Slightly over the top anchor chain

[Daverw]

Today final got round to looking at our anchor chain, boat 10m
Over the last couple of years been given a couple of extra lengths for not a lot of money.
Recently got to see photo of us out at sea and the bow looked a little lower than expected.
When chain removed and laid on pontoon we had about 80 metres of 8mm, think I could have anchored mid Atlantic with that

Chopped of to leave 35m with 10m of rode, think that’s more sensible as we never really anchor in more than 6m water and often less with lifting keel, hopefully the boat will sit a bit better in the water.

Now got to get spare chain out of car boot and get rid of it

 

[Neeves]

Today final got round to looking at our anchor chain, boat 10m
Over the last couple of years been given a couple of extra lengths for not a lot of money.
Recently got to see photo of us out at sea and the bow looked a little lower than expected.
When chain removed and laid on pontoon we had about 80 metres of 8mm, think I could have anchored mid Atlantic with that

Chopped of to leave 35m with 10m of rode, think that’s more sensible as we never really anchor in more than 6m water and often less with lifting keel, hopefully the boat will sit a bit better in the water.

Now got to get spare chain out of car boot and get rid of it

You should really notice an improvement in sailing performance. You've got what you've got and I don't see any major need for change but if you don't have a windlass you could safely down size to 6mm as you can source 6mm now off the shelf with the strength 8mm+. You will lose the impact of catenary but you can replace that with a decent snubber, boat length, so 10m. You would find retrieving 6mm by hand much easier than 8mm.

Jonathan

 

[Daverw]

Luckily we have a windless, don’t think the admiral would agree to anchor if we did not, this does mean we need to keep the 8mm.
Hopefully it will add a bit of performance, we’ve been seeing quite a bit of weather helm, which has remained with new sails. Sailmaker suggest that get the bow weight down may help with this. We will see over the next few weeks as we’re currently half way on our months sailing trip

 

[Neeves]

Now got to get spare chain out of car boot and get rid of it

Chain last for ever, but not the gal. Getting 'rid' of chain means a scrap yard and its worth nothing. However if it looks in reasonable condition, and there is a decent length, keep it to replace what you have now when it gets old tired and rusty.

If you still don't like the sailing performance you can probably lose another 15m of chain by increasing the textile portion (if the windlass will accept both chain and rope).

Start a new thread if needed to find the best way to join chain to rope.

When we downsized our chain I simply did not think of what to do with it. I decanted the 50m into the dinghy in a big plastic box. Took the dinghy to the nearby beach, with our car about 100m back from the water. I found I could not lift the box . I had to decant 25m into a big bucket and move each 25m about 10m at a time. Its amazing how quickly one learns that anchor chain, without a windlass, is quite heavy.

Jonathan

 

[Rhylsailer99]

Today final got round to looking at our anchor chain, boat 10m
Over the last couple of years been given a couple of extra lengths for not a lot of money.
Recently got to see photo of us out at sea and the bow looked a little lower than expected.
When chain removed and laid on pontoon we had about 80 metres of 8mm, think I could have anchored mid Atlantic with that

Chopped of to leave 35m with 10m of rode, think that’s more sensible as we never really anchor in more than 6m water and often less with lifting keel, hopefully the boat will sit a bit better in the water.

Now got to get spare chain out of car boot and get rid of it

My god 80 metres. I have to retrieve with brute strength solo, that would be a killer. For some reason the previous owner of my boat installed about 30 plus metres of 10mm chain, I think 8mm would be easier to haul in.

 

[Neeves]

My god 80 metres. I have to retrieve with brute strength solo, that would be a killer. For some reason the previous owner of my boat installed about 30 plus metres of 10mm chain, I think 8mm would be easier to haul in.

How big is your yacht - you might find 6mm even easier. Too many people think more weight in the rode is better - there are other options and weight in the rode destroys sailing performance. Upto about 35' 6mm is an option beyond 35' you are looking at 8mm but there is a long overlap. We used 6mm on a 38' cat roughly equivalent to a 45' mono (same windage but the mono is heavier (keel). 6mm is smaller, obviously, lighter, obviously, takes up less room, needs a smaller windlass, demands less electrical cabling and power, costs less - but people still use oversized chain.

Jonathan

 

[B27]

Today final got round to looking at our anchor chain, boat 10m
Over the last couple of years been given a couple of extra lengths for not a lot of money.
Recently got to see photo of us out at sea and the bow looked a little lower than expected.
When chain removed and laid on pontoon we had about 80 metres of 8mm, think I could have anchored mid Atlantic with that

Chopped of to leave 35m with 10m of rode, think that’s more sensible as we never really anchor in more than 6m water and often less with lifting keel, hopefully the boat will sit a bit better in the water.

Now got to get spare chain out of car boot and get rid of it

Although you may never intend to anchor in more than 6m of water, the anchor is also a safety item, you may one day want/need to anchor due to engine failure or something?
Around here, anchorages can get busy, so it's a good idea to be able to anchor in 10m or more., allowing for 5m of tide.

 

[Fr J Hackett]

Much depends on the size of the boat and its ability to carry the weight. 80M of chain on a leisure 17 would be ridiculous whereas on a 32 foot yacht could be regarded as normal.
I would be more concerned with at ad hoc accumulation and joining of bits of chain.

 

[srm]

I carried 80m of chain on my main anchor plus about 15m and multiplait for my second anchor on a medium displacement 35ft boat. I have laid out all the 80m on a couple of occasions over 15 years with the boat, and for one summer storm had both anchors down. These all in Scottish waters, where shallower depths were often cluttered with assorted moorings. We spent a day comfortable on the end of around 60m of chain (using all available swinging room) while a friend around the corner had his ropes to a mooring buoy break and needed assistance from the RNLI to get back to the buoy.

 

[NormanS]

I think it's misleading for someone with a noticeably lightweight boat to claim categorically that for a 35ft boat (any boat) 6mm chain is adequate. Our boat, of that size, carries more than 3/4 of a ton of fuel/water, and heaven knows what weight of stores, spares, and tools. The weight of decent sized chain, in our case 10mm, isn't going to make the slightest difference to the boat's performance, but it makes a huge positive difference to my peace of mind when deployed in a gale of wind.

 

[Tranona]

I think it's misleading for someone with a noticeably lightweight boat to claim categorically that for a 35ft boat (any boat) 6mm chain is adequate. Our boat, of that size, carries more than 3/4 of a ton of fuel/water, and heaven knows what weight of stores, spares, and tools. The weight of decent sized chain, in our case 10mm, isn't going to make the slightest difference to the boat's performance, but it makes a huge positive difference to my peace of mind when deployed in a gale of wind.

Read carefully what he says. UP TO 35' which covers many lighter boats in the 4-5 tonnes weight range (rather than 36'+ 8-9 tonnes with huge windage like yours. 6mm G70 is more than adequate from a strength point of view, and in many light modern boats where the chain locker is right in the bows and high up weight from inappropriate heavy chain really does make a difference.

Maybe it is you that are misleading by talking about your boat which is very different from the subject of the thread, and relying on your subjective view of what represents your "peace of mind"

 

[Daverw]

Read carefully what he says. UP TO 35' which covers many lighter boats in the 4-5 tonnes weight range (rather than 36'+ 8-9 tonnes with huge windage like yours. 6mm G70 is more than adequate from a strength point of view, and in many light modern boats where the chain locker is right in the bows and high up weight from inappropriate heavy chain really does make a difference.

Maybe it is you that are misleading by talking about your boat which is very different from the subject of the thread, and relying on your subjective view of what represents your "peace of mind"

Good point about locker location, ours is right at bow and just under the deck, not low under forepeak like many designs. You can see the locker drain holes well above water line

 

[NormanS]

Read carefully what he says. UP TO 35' which covers many lighter boats in the 4-5 tonnes weight range (rather than 36'+ 8-9 tonnes with huge windage like yours. 6mm G70 is more than adequate from a strength point of view, and in many light modern boats where the chain locker is right in the bows and high up weight from inappropriate heavy chain really does make a difference.

Maybe it is you that are misleading by talking about your boat which is very different from the subject of the thread, and relying on your subjective view of what represents your "peace of mind"

I have no argument with the statement, if it said that it applied to lightweight boats, where a handful of extra kilograms is critical, in generally benign conditions. It was, however, a blanket statement of "boats up to 35ft", which is not correct and is misleading. Obviously it also depends on the type of anchoring undertaken, but for those of us who sail and anchor in some of the more exposed waters, it is dangerous nonsense.

 

[Neeves]

I think it's misleading for someone with a noticeably lightweight boat to claim categorically that for a 35ft boat (any boat) 6mm chain is adequate. Our boat, of that size, carries more than 3/4 of a ton of fuel/water, and heaven knows what weight of stores, spares, and tools. The weight of decent sized chain, in our case 10mm, isn't going to make the slightest difference to the boat's performance, but it makes a huge positive difference to my peace of mind when deployed in a gale of wind.

We had a light weight yacht, 7 ton, and carried 400l of diesel + 4 x 20l diesel in containers on deck. We had 2 x 200l of fresh water. You carried 3/4 ton of same. We too carry spares and food for 2 people for 3 months (which we supplement with fish and lobster we catch). We baked our own bread, made our own yogurt.

With advantageous winds we can cover 100nm in 10 hours - part of which is attention to detail - namely weight: use high tensile light weight chain, snubbers and aluminium anchors.



Your point is?

Tasmania, sits in the Roaring Forties. The picture, below, is from half way up a hill, Josepheline is the only yacht off the little beach - roughly in the centre of the picture. Over the horizon is Patagonia and the weather (for all of southern Australia, but particular Tasmanania sweeps off Antarctica and and crosses the Southern Ocean and hits Port Davey (where we are anchored). The nearest road is 100km away - a 3 days trek or a 2 day sail to Hobart. You need to be self sufficient - and have ground tackle to suit - hence the ability bake bread, make yogurt catch fresh fish - carry spares, service engines, repair sails.....and anchor safely


You sail a yacht of 35'. We compared our 38' catamaran for windage with drawings provided by Bavaria of their 35' and 45' model - we had the same windage as the 45'. The big difference is the keel, and its weight. You use 10mm chain, we use 6mm chain. You use heavy steel anchors, we use lightweight aluminium anchors.

We used 6mm chain of the same strength as 8mm chain ( I measured both, - actual not specification - did you ever test your chain?). We replaced the 'loss' of catenary with elastic snubbers (a bridle).

This is a comparison of the snubbing, snatching. ability of your 10mm chain and our 10mm nylon. With a snatch load of 650kg (35knots of wind) and 30m of chain deployed at 5:1 the chain 'absorbs', maybe 1,000 joules. 10m of 10mm nylon, no chain 'absorbs' 4,000 joules. I know you can deploy more chain - how much do you need to carry. Our 10mm nylon outperforms 10mm chain by a factor of 4 - and we still have the 6mm chain. as back up. As the wind increases chain becomes less and less useful - call it a liability



We would spend 3 months in Tasmania in the summer and Tasmania enjoys storm force winds, Storm warnings are issued, once a month in the summer. On one return passage the forecast was slightly optimistic and we enjoyed a passage with wind over 55 knots for 10 hours. Port Davey, where we based our summer cruises, lacks mobile and VHF coverage - forecasts are satellite or SSB, we commissioned before satellite became common place and relied on SSB forecasts from our Bureau of Met, updated every 4 hours (alarm clocks are still useful!).

We never worried about our ground tackle and made frequent visits to Tasmania. Much preferable to the much more popular Whitsundays.

We had a yacht with the windage of a 45' Bavaria, used 6mm chain and snubbers.

I wonder what the average size of yacht is for owners on YBW?

As I have said in the past - if you have any queries - send me a PM and I will respond. I have series of links on use of snubbers, anchoring etc etc and I am more than happy to provide and further explain.

Relying on technology from the distant past is perfectly safe - that does not mean the today's technology is in any way inferior.

Jonathan

 

[Tranona]

I have no argument with the statement, if it said that it applied to lightweight boats, where a handful of extra kilograms is critical, in generally benign conditions. It was, however, a blanket statement of "boats up to 35ft", which is not correct and is misleading. Obviously it also depends on the type of anchoring undertaken, but for those of us who sail and anchor in some of the more exposed waters, it is dangerous nonsense.

There are very few (if any) sailing boats under 35' where 6mm would not have a significant safety factor. Remember it is the anchor that holds the boat NOT the rode, whether chain or rope and has been demonstrated many times a boat of that size cannot generate loads that exceed the safe working range of 6mm chain. So if like the OP there are concerns about excess weight in the bows of the boat then reducing the size of the chain or length of chain, (as the OP did) or combination of the 2 are both viable strategies - remembering of course to ensure all connections are compatible with the strength of the chosen rode. Reducing the size or material of the anchor may also be considered, although the weight saving is minimal - going from 16kg to 10kg anchor or to aluminium on a 16kg size is between 6-8kgs whereas going from 8mm to 6mm on a 50m chain is 32kgs. Keeping 8mm chain but a 50/50 chain/rope would save about 20kgs.

 

[Tranona]

Good point about locker location, ours is right at bow and just under the deck, not low under forepeak like many designs. You can see the locker drain holes well above water line

Yes, allows greater room in the forward cabin. You could have saved a bit more weight by choosing a 10kg version of your Epsilon as I did

 

[billskip]

Remember it is the anchor that holds the boat NOT the rode,

Ok, no anchor involved..lay out 100 mtrs 10mm nylon rode...and 100mtrs 10mm chain .....pick up one end and see how far you can walk ....

I can understand the theories about anchoring and weight etc, but some people go sailing for pleasure and I for one find my pleasure with no stress and worry as to how fast I can go and when I anchor I have 100 % confidence, also I have plenty of extra to use in an emergency.....

 

[NormanS]

We had a light weight yacht, 7 ton, and carried 400l of diesel + 4 x 20l diesel in containers on deck. We had 2 x 200l of fresh water. You carried 3/4 ton of same. We too carry spares and food for 2 people for 3 months (which we supplement with fish and lobster we catch). We baked our own bread, made our own yogurt.

With advantageous winds we can cover 100nm in 10 hours - part of which is attention to detail - namely weight: use high tensile light weight chain, snubbers and aluminium anchors.

View attachment 181732

Your point is?

Tasmania, sits in the Roaring Forties. The picture, below, is from half way up a hill, Josepheline is the only yacht off the little beach - roughly in the centre of the picture. Over the horizon is Patagonia and the weather (for all of southern Australia, but particular Tasmanania sweeps off Antarctica and and crosses the Southern Ocean and hits Port Davey (where we are anchored). The nearest road is 100km away - a 3 days trek or a 2 day sail to Hobart. You need to be self sufficient - and have ground tackle to suit - hence the ability bake bread, make yogurt catch fresh fish - carry spares, service engines, repair sails.....and anchor safely
View attachment 181737

You sail a yacht of 35'. We compared our 38' catamaran for windage with drawings provided by Bavaria of their 35' and 45' model - we had the same windage as the 45'. The big difference is the keel, and its weight. You use 10mm chain, we use 6mm chain. You use heavy steel anchors, we use lightweight aluminium anchors.

We used 6mm chain of the same strength as 8mm chain ( I measured both, - actual not specification - did you ever test your chain?). We replaced the 'loss' of catenary with elastic snubbers (a bridle).

This is a comparison of the snubbing, snatching. ability of your 10mm chain and our 10mm nylon. With a snatch load of 650kg (35knots of wind) and 30m of chain deployed at 5:1 the chain 'absorbs', maybe 1,000 joules. 10m of 10mm nylon, no chain 'absorbs' 4,000 joules. I know you can deploy more chain - how much do you need to carry. Our 10mm nylon outperforms 10mm chain by a factor of 4 - and we still have the 6mm chain. as back up. As the wind increases chain becomes less and less useful - call it a liability
View attachment 181731


We would spend 3 months in Tasmania in the summer and Tasmania enjoys storm force winds, Storm warnings are issued, once a month in the summer. On one return passage the forecast was slightly optimistic and we enjoyed a passage with wind over 55 knots for 10 hours. Port Davey, where we based our summer cruises, lacks mobile and VHF coverage - forecasts are satellite or SSB, we commissioned before satellite became common place and relied on SSB forecasts from our Bureau of Met, updated every 4 hours (alarm clocks are still useful!).

We never worried about our ground tackle and made frequent visits to Tasmania. Much preferable to the much more popular Whitsundays.

We had a yacht with the windage of a 45' Bavaria, used 6mm chain and snubbers.

I wonder what the average size of yacht is for owners on YBW?

As I have said in the past - if you have any queries - send me a PM and I will respond. I have series of links on use of snubbers, anchoring etc etc and I am more than happy to provide and further explain.

Relying on technology from the distant past is perfectly safe - that does not mean the today's technology is in any way inferior.

Jonathan

That is, as usual, an extraordinarily long winded story from you, with extraneous details about your diet. You had a relatively light, shallow draft boat, with lots of windage, and which would skitter about in gusts, and I'm sure that your arrangements worked well for you. That doesn't mean that your gear in the particular boat that you had, are necessarily the best for all. (By the way, I make use of several anchors, not all of them steel).

 

[Tranona]

Ok, no anchor involved..lay out 100 mtrs 10mm nylon rode...and 100mtrs 10mm chain .....pick up one end and see how far you can walk ....

I can understand the theories about anchoring and weight etc, but some people go sailing for pleasure and I for one find my pleasure with no stress and worry as to how fast I can go and when I anchor I have 100 % confidence, also I have plenty of extra to use in an emergency.....

The comment was made in response to the statement in post#10. In a "gale of wind" any (minor) effect chain has on anchor holding has long disappeared. At between 26-30 knots of wind the chain (or rope) is straight and its only function is to keep the boat connected to the anchor. So provided its breaking strain is under the force exerted on the boat (and the holding power of the anchor) the size and material is irrelevant.

 

[billskip]

the size and material is irrelevant.

Can't agree with that....weight is weight and it takes energy to move it....

Unless you can enlighten different.