Slept enough to go sailing safely?

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Resolution

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A survey by the AAA Foundation for Traffic Safety in Washington has found that a lack of sleep can significantly increase one's probability of having an accident. Drivers who had slept 1 to 2 hours less than usual had 1.3x the normal rate of accidents.
2 to 3 3.0x
3 to 4 2.1x
4 or more 10.2x

The estimated crash risk associated with driving after only 4-5 hours of sleep compared with 7 hours or more
is similar to the National Highway Traffic Safety Administration’s estimates of the crash risk associated with
driving with a blood alcohol concentration (BAC) equal to or slightly over the legal limit for alcohol in the US
(0.08), and the crash risk associated with having slept less than 4 hours of sleep is comparable to the crash risk
associated with a BAC of roughly 0.12-0.15

Following the long thread last month about drinking and driving, or drinking and sailing, I wonder if those who so very properly proclaimed that they would never drink and drive (or drink and sail) should also be considering their sleep patterns before setting out on the briny?

(It would certainly make a mess of most cross Channel watch patterns on a Friday night!)
Peter
 
Resolution said:
A survey by the AAA Foundation for Traffic Safety in Washington has found that a lack of sleep can significantly increase one's probability of having an accident. Drivers who had slept 1 to 2 hours less than usual had 1.3x the normal rate of accidents.
2 to 3 3.0x
3 to 4 2.1x
4 or more 10.2x

The estimated crash risk associated with driving after only 4-5 hours of sleep compared with 7 hours or more
is similar to the National Highway Traffic Safety Administration’s estimates of the crash risk associated with
driving with a blood alcohol concentration (BAC) equal to or slightly over the legal limit for alcohol in the US
(0.08), and the crash risk associated with having slept less than 4 hours of sleep is comparable to the crash risk
associated with a BAC of roughly 0.12-0.15

Following the long thread last month about drinking and driving, or drinking and sailing, I wonder if those who so very properly proclaimed that they would never drink and drive (or drink and sail) should also be considering their sleep patterns before setting out on the briny?

(It would certainly make a mess of most cross Channel watch patterns on a Friday night!)
Peter
Click to expand...

S/h Atlantic crossing & sleep ?????
 
At a basic level, the second to second risk while sailing is enormously less than when driving. Many of us will have sailed after an overnight passage and arrived safely and berthed without too much damage while sleep-deprived. It's one of those things which are quite fun when you are young but lose their appeal if You have survived to maturity.

On the other hand, true fatigue is certainly a killer at sea. A friend of ours did a trip across the Pacific, and of the group of six boats that left Panama at the same time, two, both singlehanders, came to grief with fatigue as the main cause. I don't think the numbers amount to statistical significance, but they do show how serious the problem can be.
 
Interesting and serious question. Part of the problem with sleep deprivation is I guess the nonlinear way in which it manifests itself. There is also no convenient test for tiredness.
 
You can't compare sleep deprivation and driving at 60mph with sailing at 5knots.
I have no problem going X channel and walking into town for a meal, but on the return I have a nights sleep on board before driving home and, shock horror, on the way across I go below and cook a meal!
Crossing Biscay (solo) I even manage two or three hours sleep periodically.
 
pvb said:
And they had to have a survey to discover that? Whatever happened to common sense?
Click to expand...

I think the value of the survey was to put some numbers to what you know as common sense. And by then comparing the results to the results of alcohol impairment I think they have shown just how serious the tiredness factor is in road accidents.

Looking at it from a boating perspective, it is likely that a lot of our night time cruising is done short-handed with tired and dozy crew.
 
LadyInBed said:
You can't compare sleep deprivation and driving at 60mph with sailing at 5knots.
.
Click to expand...
Why not? Obviously collision risks at sea are lower than on the roads because everyone is more spaced apart. However a few minutes asleep in the Channel could give time for a ship to appear over the horizon without you seeing it, so you have significantly raised your risk of a collision from miniscule to measurable.

Who does your lookout in Biscay while you are asleep? Some sort of radar alarm? I'm not trying to criticise aggressively, but interested in what you do to look after your own safety.
 
A couple of seconds nod off in a car without auto steering and proximity sensors, you are in trouble.
Five or ten minutes nod on a boat in open water with AH on plus AIS alarm and RADAR guard band set isn't an issue.
Not every ship that appears over the horizon is on a collision course with you, and your AIS will have 'seen' the ones that matter well before you have visual on them.
We are talking about open water sailing, not an afternoon sailing in the overcrowded water that is the Solent!
 
LadyInBed said:
We are talking about open water sailing, not an afternoon sailing in the overcrowded water that is the Solent!
Click to expand...
As another single hander I would say ocean isn't that bad, I probably sleep more way offshore than in port. Hardly anything there, and radar/ais alarms consistently pick up the few that are.
Coastal overnighters can be quite hard work though,imho. Not because of the same reasons as driving tired, not hitting things really isn't difficult, but at 5 or 6 in the morning when you're dog tired, cold and really not firing on all cylinders I find the decision making process can get very difficult. I need to take time and really think through any decisions, helps to admit to yourself that you're not running 100% and be careful. Then when the sun comes up and you warm up a bit things get better.
 
How anybody ever survives the first year of life with parents suffering with lack of sleep and a new person with no instruction manual and no off button. Humans adapt!
 
Sandy said:
How anybody ever survives the first year of life with parents suffering with lack of sleep and a new person with no instruction manual and no off button. Humans adapt!
Click to expand...

Yes, but the second year of the second child was even worse!
 
Resolution said:
A survey by the AAA Foundation for Traffic Safety in Washington has found that a lack of sleep can significantly increase one's probability of having an accident. Drivers who had slept 1 to 2 hours less than usual had 1.3x the normal rate of accidents.
2 to 3 3.0x
3 to 4 2.1x
4 or more 10.2x

The estimated crash risk associated with driving after only 4-5 hours of sleep compared with 7 hours or more
is similar to the National Highway Traffic Safety Administration’s estimates of the crash risk associated with
driving with a blood alcohol concentration (BAC) equal to or slightly over the legal limit for alcohol in the US
(0.08), and the crash risk associated with having slept less than 4 hours of sleep is comparable to the crash risk
associated with a BAC of roughly 0.12-0.15

Following the long thread last month about drinking and driving, or drinking and sailing, I wonder if those who so very properly proclaimed that they would never drink and drive (or drink and sail) should also be considering their sleep patterns before setting out on the briny?

(It would certainly make a mess of most cross Channel watch patterns on a Friday night!)
Peter
Click to expand...

I was the advocate who introduced the "drink driving / tired driving" logical inconsistency into the previous thread ..... and got hammered for it (if you'll excuse the expression) :)

I have no connection with the AAA Foundation for Traffic Safety in Washington, of course. :rolleyes:

Richard
 
The OP makes a good point. One to which I have to admit I cant pass.
I was pulled over a couple of years ago. Suspected of being impaired. I was about 10 blocks or a mile from home. Supposedly wander on the divide. I was asked if I had been drinking, being around 0400 a reasonable question I suppose. No I hadn't I rarely do and not if I am driving.
He noticed al my camping gear in the back and asked where I had come from. Bowron Lakes I just finished the circuit earlier the day before. Did you drive all the way Pretty much stopped for coffee a few times and dropped my son of.
Not sure exactly rough guess about 800 K give or take. after a days canoeing.
It never occurred to me I might not be fit to drive. I have driven routinely All the way down from Rupert 1700K or Edmonton Pretty dam far. A time Zone. Or San Francisco I think its about 1000m
I got a bit of a lecture.

Sailing I often sail alone overnight. I never sleep underway. 12 to 16 hrs ok in the past I would go 24. Not now. coming up from Oregon after 24hrs I found myself falling asleep while steering. That was with one other crew. After 48hrs we were definitely fatigued.
Probably to a point of being seriously impaired.

As an individual I have an issue with sleeping on watch. But I have been guilty of being impaired by fatigue. Which isn't much better.
 
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When I am passage making (that is, a passage of more than, say, 15 hours) I always make sure the crew (and me) get adequate off watch time below decks. That way there is a chance of shorts naps, or dozing off, that can partially recharge the body.

On longer passages we do proper watches, if possible 3 hours on/6 hours off, or 4 hours/4 hours, depending on crewing levels, weather, maritime traffic. Found this works well for more than 3 days (longest passage I have done is 12 days).

The MAIB observation mentioned earlier is more related to ships with heated wheel houses where the solitary helmsman has dozed off and run the boat aground. A not so rare occurrence in NW Scotland.
 
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