Sleeping at anchor - is a mid cabin a must ?

[Portofino]

Well, where did you see an E/R access other than from the cockpit hatch+ladder, then?

Through the crew cabin door .
The crew cabin was amidships under the galley area .
You accessed that ( like the I 46 ) by it ladder .Interestingly and putter off ish that door / hatch was on the galley and when open I imagined a trip hazard esp under way .Closed it was disguised as normal 60 cm unit in a kitchen .
You lifted up the “ work top “ and opened outwards the front / door = hence leaving a big hole in the corner of the kitchen .
This boat had the fold down flip transom .Not sure which Mk but its not a 1 ?
Hugh did demo it at SiB s once - this one is the one I went on .
go to 4.3 ish

 

[MapisM]

Through the crew cabin door.

Mmm... R U sure?
I assume you are referring to 4:27 onward, i.e. the Mk2 crew cabin access, but I can assure you that I've seen a Mk2 where there was absolutely no access from that crew cabin to the E/R.
There is in fact a structural bulkhead separating the E/R from the crew cabin, completely solid, and supporting several components on the E/R side.
E/R access remains, as it was in the 57 and 62 Mk1, through a cockpit hatch and down a ladder.
That said, SL did allow a degree of customization also on their entry model, so I can't rule out that they fitted a door on that bulkhead in some units.
In fact, in between the crew bunks and the head there were some lockers in the boat I've seen, but that space is near the centerline, so I guess that theoretically they could accomodate a door leading to the E/R in between the engines.

Regardless, for anyone used to the typical E/R access of a similar size trawler, that's akin to a practical joke.
As I said previously, at the size we are now debating, the VZ18 was to my knowledge the only exception, with an aft crew area accessible with a proper stair from the saloon, and from there straight into the E/R through a w/tight door.
A great boat indeed, in more ways than one.
Nowhere near as popular as the SL62 (aside from their N Adriatic captive market), but arguably her best competitor, back in the days.

 

[prinex]

btw VZ18 is also one of my favourite boats .... not many around sadly.

 

[MapisM]

I totally can see why you like her, but I'm afraid that finding a good one is much harder compared to other mainstream builders.
Three reasons for this:
1) they were built in small numbers, to start with.
2) their owners usually love them, and some of their peculiarities are impossible to find elsewhere. So, it's not a boat that changes hand as frequently as many others.
3) the builder used to offer a degree of customization totally unheard of - much higher than even SL, in fact. As a consequence, depending on the first owner preferences, some units were a bit of a curate's egg, to put it politely.

All that said, if the size (which is larger than the Sq58 and other similar sub-60' boats, mind) fits your needs and you come across a good unit, you'll struggle to find anything better, also in terms of build quality, and regardless of how more well known some other brands are!

PS: an added bonus, considering your initial point the thread is based on, is that the crew area astern is quite simply the best in class, and you will not find a quieter place for sleeping at anchor in any other boat, though what I said ref. GRP being inherently noisy still stands, obviously.

 

[kashurst]

Last time I looked a Squadron 58 has three cabins. You don't always have to sleep in the bow.
I had a 50 foot mid cabin boat and I prefered the bow cabin. Instead of bow slapping etc, you get noise from the aircon etc and you still get waves slapping the sides of the boat sometimes - However I suspect a properly big boat like a Princess 67 etc is quite a different experience.

There are also many flybridge boats with good engine access through the cockpit hatch too.

 

[MapisM]

There are also many flybridge boats with good engine access through the cockpit hatch too.

Many PLANING flybridge boats, and under 60'?
I for one would be curious to hear which names do you have in mind.

Mind, it's also a matter of what do you mean by "good" engine access, of course.
In this respect, let me cut and paste what I wrote earlier in this thread...

For any given size, in a scale where 0 is totally unacceptable and 10 is perfect, e/r accessibility in most trawlers is anywhere between 8 and 10.
In planing boats (the good ones, mind!) it's somewhere between 2 and 3.
How relevant do you think it is, to someone who is used to a 8 or 9, if one of these boats is 2.8 and another is 2.4?

 

[kashurst]

In planing boats (the good ones, mind!) it's somewhere between 2 and 3.

well it depends on the boat and the skipper - you could have a small dinner party in my engine bay . But I am a short arse with tiny engines. Makes life easy though as I can walk in between them (sideways) and reach everything both sides no problem. It's why I bought the boat. Other 40 - 45 footers aren't too bad, Astondoa engine bay is pretty good, you (I) can get down both sides. Rodmans too.

 

[Portofino]

Again, forget that with ANY sub-60' planing boat.
While e/r access in the Sq58 is very far from requiring furniture unscrewing (aside from some extra-ordinary maintenance), I agree that it isn't one of her strongest points.
Competitors boats of similar size and vintage weren't much better, though: Prin 57, 'Hattan 56, Ferretti 57 (and I could list others that you probably never heard of, mine included) all have their pros and cons when it comes to e/r accessibility, but the arrangement is similar, and none of them offer door access.
Interestingly, at that size, I can only think of two older boats that on top of the hatch also allowed door access to the e/r: the Ferretti 175 and the Hudson 54 (which is one of those you probably never heard of). And also these, were very cramped inside anyway.
Problem is, you need a lot of iron to move 25 Tons on the water at 30+ knots.
That's the reason why I laugh at those who praise the e/r of Nordhavns and the likes: at any given size, making a decent e/r is MUCH easier with a trawler compared to a planing boat, for very obvious reasons.

Here you are , this came through on a generic mail .
Sorry I couldn’t copy the few pics wanted so have to post the whole add .
Take note of the door , albeit smaller than full height on the Fwds side of the cabin marinaros .Bunks as I said up against the transom .Ladder port , heads stb .
Itama 46' from 1998, used boat for sale | yacht4web.com

 

[MapisM]

Sq58, Sq55, SL57, SL62, VZ18, and a Deutz powered trawler: these are the boats the OP mentioned.
If an Itama 46 can have some sort of relevance in this debate, I'm definitely missing it.

 

[MapisM]

well it depends on the boat and the skipper - you could have a small dinner party in my engine bay.
But I am a short arse with tiny engines.

Tiny engines and planing boat is a sort of oxymoron, in my books.
The line you quoted from a previous post of mine is specifically referrred to planing boats.
Is that what the one in your pic actually is?

 

[kashurst]

Yes, I have a rodman 38 with twin KAMD300s. Flat out is a heady 24 knots but cruises all day at 17 -18 kns. So fast enough for me.

 

[MapisM]

Well done to Rodman, then.
Aside from the chromed brass valve, that is...

 

[Portofino]

Sq58, Sq55, SL57, SL62, VZ18, and a Deutz powered trawler: these are the boats the OP mentioned.
If an Itama 46 can have some sort of relevance in this debate, I'm definitely missing it.

Relevance is if you search hard enough AND ER room access is near the top of the deck so to speak of the “cards of desirability “ then they are around .

I know Keith’s mentioned it a few times and I have popped in various engine related threads .Glad that’s 3 of us now inc the OP .
I turned up once and noticed water in one side of the V outside the engine .Boat ran fine .
A night the water pump would twitch every 2/3 hrs .Sure checked the faucets , then the toilets = nope all off .Hmm a water leak .
Thing is I could easily climb over a engine ( camper mat fie insulation if hot ) flip over to the outboard port side where all the plumbing is .First pass could not find it .No rush as boat fully functioned .Then found time to get to the bottom , again climb over outboard and talk power in hand found it .
It wasn’t a push fit or any Union or pipe .It was the actual spout it you like the plastic bit sticking out from under the hot water heater tank = it had cracked .Not sure how .So new one needed whole unit .It’s 220:v + inverter if needs be .

Now then it needs to be able size wise to be man handled past the back of the engines over the G box and through the hatch to get out and similar to refit the new .
Guess what it came out with almost rubrics cube turning and there was sufficient room to jiggle a new into its spot and I simply connected it up .

What a ball ache if the builder ( with no care in the world ) had crammed it i; before the engines + much more and generally stuffed the ER room so much so the floor had to come up so the water tank could get out / in from the top only ?
Similarly when it came to valve / tappets adjustments , I climbed over my mate stayed in the middle between the engines and turned / bared them then double checked the pull on the feeler gauge before I nipped up the locking nut .
Two blokes working together one each side of the motors , both hatches open plenty of light + air .

My only previous experience of the S/skr Porto 35 with KADs crammed in and having to remove 1/2 the back end of the boat to do anything meaningful like get to the port fuel filters etc that the “ never again “ point is reached .
Different size I know but the mental scares are still there ! .


Geny under the ladder between the tanks . Impeller is where the “ 3.5 “ is behind the cover easy to get at .


Sorry side ways pics guys .
See the hot water tank with additional Velcro straps .
Not “ marine “ just a household circa €150 or something from the giant DIY chains .But crucially there is space to move it out / in .

Would not have bought it if was a PITA to get around stuff as ER access was and still is high up on priority.
Just makes life in the MAN cave a pleasure , another facet of boating .
Or course if you brought new , it ain’t your problem , as you have the dealer on speed dial . You can lie down in the cavernous mid cabin while the engineers phaff on .

 

[kashurst]

Well done to Rodman, then.
Aside from the chromed brass valve, that is...

DZR valves.

 

[MapisM]

DZR valves.

Interesting, I never saw any chromed DZR valves before.
Do you possibly remember the brand?

 

[kashurst]

Sorry M they are not chromed - they are a dull silvery colour. The sun/light makes them look a bit shiny in the picture. They aren't.