Slap on the wrist from French Customs!

So, you are quite happy that the grounding of the Braer was just an unavoidable accident, because the owners complied with the regulations in the country of registration? Despite the incompetence of the master and the inability of some of the members of the crew to understand each other?

As one who has been fined by French Customs for not having the correct documentation: it was my fault that I didn't comply with the regulations in France. I do my best to do so now, in the same way as I comply with driving regulations - driving on the right etc. /forums/images/graemlins/wink.gif
 
Not quite sure that's a valid interpretation of Brian's point as it would apear at face value (I don't know the detail) that the case you are referring to wouldn't be complying with the IMO regulations.

I do agree that you should comply with local rgulations but would add a caveat - where these are clearly published!

If the French requirements are that clear why are they not published in an Almanac? I believe as others have said that it is in the interpretation of the regulations that the issues occur - taking Solas V and my boat for example I have decided, as skipper and owner, that it is not practical to fit a radar reflector plus radar to my <8m craft concluding that the radar is more important all round. The regulations, by including the words 'if practical' give me that option but equally give others the opportunity to make a judgement - not a good position to be in when faced with the 'away team' outlined in this post.
 
OK, the comment about the Braer was a little OTT and I apologise. The point persists however. If the French regulations are not published in your Almanac, refer to the publisher.

I hold no brief for the system used by French Customs, especially having suffered at their hands, but their rules are THE rules in France and arguing that it's none of their business, when we are in their country or their territorial waters, is futile.

An additional caution; the fine of 150 Euros for not having proper registration documents on board is rather more palatable that the 2,000 Euros, which you are liable for if your boat is not SSR registered in the UK. It was having the SSR registration number stencilled into the coachroof that saved me from that.

As Vagabond said in the original post, they come aboard mob-handed and carrying guns. This is no fun and if they decide to fine you, they will "escort you" to a cashpoint to extract the money in cash there and then. The alternative is arrest. /forums/images/graemlins/blush.gif
 
We were boarded in Camaret at end of August, There was only one and he was very frendly, but didn't speak a word of english. He went through all our paperwork filling in a form as he went, on finishing with us he went on to the Dutch boat next to us. No mention of log but we were in port.
 
I will raise it with the publisher but expect a response along the lines of 'what rules?' - ie they won't publish what isn't defined somewhere!
Can you point me to a source that defines the French local requirements to (1) keep a log including their definition of what constitutes an acceptable log and (2) the unacceptable nature of pencil?

Just to be clear I have no issue with the 'standard' documentation requirements whatsover and comply fully (I believe) it is the spectre of interpretation of wider regulations that concerns me - crikey we had/have enough problems here with exactly that on SOLAS V for pleasure vessels and it's still ongoing!
 
The ones that boarded my boat were also very polite and spoke good English. They explained fully what was happening and even shook hands and smiled as they took their leave. However, they still relieved me of 150 Euros /forums/images/graemlins/blush.gif.
 
I have no idea where to start looking. My experience with French regulations is slight. It is only by chance that I opted to (habitually) use a pen for my log rather than a pencil.

As for keeping a regularly updated log, I just assume that since a passage plan is mandatory (?) a log of the outcome probably is as well.
 
I've been asked for my papers three times - twice in French ports and once at sea by the French Customs (while heading home). They're just doing their job, although the visit at sea was a little irritating. I've never been asked for my papers in England.
 
[ QUOTE ]
Can you point me to a source that defines the French local requirements to (1) keep a log including their definition of what constitutes an acceptable log


[/ QUOTE ]

The Official Text is called Division 224 (last version 28.10.04), logbook is described at point 7. of Article 224-3.3

"A logbook recollecting the essential elements of navigation (crew members, time of leaving port, observed and forecasted weather, position, course and speed at regular intervals, fuel consumption and reserve, every incident or accident aboard)"

[ QUOTE ]

and (2) the unacceptable nature of pencil?


[/ QUOTE ]
although this is not specified in the above rule, I think it stems from the fact that to be acceptable as a legal proof, the logbook should be "homogeneous", i.e. it cannot be composed of loose leaves, and it must be impossible to modify its content at a later moment.

Having said that, the first requirement is only specified for French registered vessels sailing more than 6nm from shelter, so I doubt it would be binding for uk vessels in french waters;

the second one is not exactly a requirement for vessels, but more a logic consequence of the proof law: should a uk vessel in french waters cause a serious accident, the skipper will be presumed at fault in a french court unless it can produce a "valid" logbook detailing his behaviour
 
Re: Passage planning..........

now you don't really want to spin off into what constitutes a passage plan do you .....?!?

my 'log' is an electronic recording, in duplicate (2 plotters), of exactly where I have been (as oposed to the 'where I think I am' of old - and possible even some current! - boaters) and any forays into and out of other national or juristictional areas will have been logged by their paperwork, and normally accompanied by bills/invoices as well. Does this constitute 'a log'? I am not directing this as a question to you but as an example of the difficulties of complying with interpretations of regulations that present the spirit of the rules in many cases.
The online dictionary has the following definition for a log
Nautical.
A device trailed from a ship to determine its speed through the water.
[ QUOTE ]
Nautical.
A device trailed from a ship to determine its speed through the water.
A record of a ship's speed, its progress, and any shipboard events of navigational importance.
The book in which this record is kept

[/ QUOTE ]
In this case I fail on the first count as I don't use one of these, the second is pretty much covered by the electronics and, re the third for me, were I to make physical entries on a watch basis (4 hourly) would be over before I start (ie would be a historical record of I left and I arrived) as I have never made a passage as long as 4 hours (St Peter Port to Poole being the longest I have done in the boat).

On second thoughts your analogy with a passage plan, deliberately or otherwise, is excellent!
 
thank you - excellent and clear.

I might just start doing that in fact I may well develop my own formatted page to cover off the sections including engine hours and fuel estimates.

Generally I have found the pre produced ones more focused on cruising yachts and beyond reasonable modification for my simple needs!
 
Re: mais oui........

once you know what you are looking for the internet is a great beast........... 224

I have translated it roughly (ie by computer) but can't host the file anywhere - if someone want's/can make it available can let me know where to post it.

I do hope all craft going more than 6 miles from port, and less than 200, carry the full medical kit specified..........

Medical equipment for a distance up to 200 miles of a shelter Localization daans the therapeutic container Effect International non-proprietary Name (DCI) and/or molecule activates (unit Proportioning) * Référence according to European Coding ATC commercial Name of the product bought to indicate Liste Quantity Presentation here by Nombre conditioning limp Expiry date to indicate here STUDY OF ALLERGIES CORTICOIDE Betamethasone (2 Mg) Compressed H0ÀB01 I 20 compressed 1 states TREATMENT of shock Epinéphrine ** 1 mg/ml or 0,3 mg/0,3 ml C0ÇA04 I SC or IM Kit injection 1 Analgesics-antispasmodiques Anti-douleur/anti-fever Paracétamol (500 Mg) N02BE01 Comprimés 16 compressed 1 Anti-pain POWERFUL Tramadol (100mg) Compressed N0ÀX02 II 20 compressed 1 ANTISPASMODIQUE Phloroglucinol (200 A0ÁX12 Lyocs 10 Lyocs 1 Anti-inflammatory drugs Anti-inflammatory drug Ketoprophene (50 Mg) M01AE03 II Compressed 24 compressed 1 CARDIOLOGY CORONARODILATATEUR Trinitrine 0,15 Mg C01DA02 II Solution Bottle spray 1 DERMATOLOGY LOCAL ANTISEPTIC Chlorhexidine aqueous (0,05%) D0ÅC02 Solution Unidose 10 CREME TOTAL SCREEN Index 60 D02BA Crème Tubes 50 ml 1 BURNS immediate processing Trolamine D0ÀX Emulsion Tubes 96 G 1 CREAM ANTIBACTERIENNE Cuivre, Zinc, Sucralfate D0ÅX Crème Tubes 40 G 1 Gastro-enterologie Anti-acide GASTRIC Aluminium/Magnésium compressed hydroxides A0ÀD01 Comprimés 40 1 ANTIDIARRHÉIQUE Lopéramide (2 Mg) A07DA03 II Gélules 20 Gélules 1 HEMOSTASE ANTI AGREGANT plate salicylic Acide acétyl (300 Mg) B01AC06 I Powders Ground buv. 30 sachets 1 INFECTOLOGIE ANTIBIOTIC PENICILLINE Amoxicil. (500 Mg) + Ac.Clav.(125 Mg) J0ÇR02 I Compressed 12 compressed 1 ANTIBIOTIC MACROLIDE Josamycin (1g) Compressed J01FA07 I 10 compressed 1 OPHTHALMOLOGY EYE LOTION disinfectant Hexamidine 0.1%(0,6ml) S01AX08 coll. Unidose Unidose (10) 1 EYE LOTION anti-inflammatory drug Indometacine 0.1% 5mg S01BC01 Collyre unidose Unidose 0.35ml (20) 1 PSYCHIATRY ANXIOLYTIQUE Diazepam (5 Mg) Compressed N05BA01 I 40 compressed 1 ACCESSORIES ADHESIVE PLASTER Roller Roller 1 COMPRESS DEADS 20x20 Sachet links. Package (by 10) 3 GLOVES Of EXAMINATION Pairs Cuts average 5 BANDAGES ADHESIFS Stériles 4 sides Assortiment Set 1 APPLICATION COHESIVE Rouleau 4,5 m X 7 cm 1 elastic APPLICATION Adhésive Roller 2,5m X 6cm 2 PINS of sureté varied Tailles 12 GRIP A SPLINTERS 1 Electronic CLINICAL THERMOMETER 1 Adhesive CUTANEOUS JOININGS Sterile Package 2 SCISSORS 1 GUIDES MEDICAL Type guides First aid and Care 1
 
Thanks Roberto, that's interesting. If as you say, the requirement only applies to French registered yachts, then it sounds pretty incompetent that the French authorities are trying to apply the French rules also to foreign vessels!

You would think that as part of their training it would not be too hard to learn that "Rules ABC are requirements only for French yachts, Rules XYZ are requirements that we impose also on visiting foreign vessels".

Perhaps the RYA needs to get in touch with the French authorities to explain French law to them! /forums/images/graemlins/wink.gif

About the proof law that you mention: nearly every legal system in the world has a basic principle that a person is presumed innocent unless proven guilty. If this presumption is reversed just because you happen to use a pencil instead of a pen, then gawd help the French legal system!
 
So to all those out there ..... check this out ...

So I have a folder prepared with :

a) General Data sheet on Superanne and Sunrider 25.
b) General Layout plan
c) Paravane use and design
d) Solent Tidal Streams per hour.
e) Channel Tidal Streams per hour
f) Instructions to use the Loo
g) Printed Chart packs covering from Chichester Bar to Cherbourg Entrance in 4 different scales - showing waypoints etc.
h) International Code Flag card and Phonetics / meanings
i) Solas V data sheets.
j) Life Saving Signals Sheet
k) Navtex data and instruction sheets

I shall have with me my SSR book.

I shall have with me my Insurance Certificate.

I shall have VHF licence posted inside cabin window.

I shall carry my RT Restricted Licence.

I shall TRY and maintain my Diary style bound Log book .... suitably embossed with Letraset Gold lettering ! (In pen of course - what else ?)

I shall TRY and plot on my charts to back up my Notebook chart system.

I shall TRY and remember that this is a serious business and that French Authorities are serious about us Yachties being safe and responsible people ...

Anything I forgotten ??? Is there room for anything else or time ??


THis is obviously all related to the above post and also the intended trip to Cherbourg very soon .... ( I take this opportunity to apologise to those who will moan ... yes I have also posted this list on Cherbourg forum - as there may be some who do not read this thread ....)

/forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif
 
Re: So to all those out there ..... check this out ...

[ QUOTE ]
I shall have VHF licence posted inside cabin window.

[/ QUOTE ]

if that's the disc don't forget to have the actual Ship Radio Licence document with you too.
 
Radio doc .... now there\'s a thing !!

Haven't seen that for a while !!!

Hmmm ... methinks my pre-departure checks are going to be more finding odd bits of paper than boat !!
 
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